Alternate day fasting

[mumofjust1]

Is anyone watching BBC2?

There's a programme on with Michael Molesley about the benefits of it - it's very interesting and seems to have lots of health benefits.

Has anyone tried it?

Mosley did have significantly different body fat by the end of it which was very interesting. I think the idea of the 'fast' being 500 calories rather than nothing is that it keeps your metabolism ticking over?
Fizzy, interesting about soups. I should have more of them.
Is 60g high protein? I thought that's what you should eat?

Hi, I searched for a thread on fasting and couldn't find one and started one in 'General Health' as this is about more than weight loss.

The fasting only works because it is fasting. Snacking throughout doesn't have the same effect and your body has to go through the starvation mode in order for it to start using your own stored calories.

As regards protein, it only 'causes ageing because when we eat (anything, not just protein as I think the body creates its own) the body focuses on creating new cells and not repairing old ones. On the other hand fasting prompts neural cell development, so not only do you look younger, get slimmer, you also get smarter. Sounds too good to be true...

But it won't work if you drip-feed calories regularly as the body will still want to create new cells. I think.

I've been on a low cal diet for a while, and on Sunday I ate 677 cals, with about 120 of those being snacks . So if you take those out I had 550 cals, which was:

Generic - Instant Black Coffee, 10 cup

20
Egg - Free Range - Medium, 1 egg

70
Quorn - Ham Slices, 1 Slices

15
Homemade - Basic Salad - Mixed Leaves, Cucumber, Red Onion, Grated Carrot, Red Pepper, 1 medium container

45
Tesco - Reduced Fat Houmous, 10 g

26
Tesco - Meat Free Lincolnshire Sausage, 2 sausage

185
Vegetables - Boiled New Potatoes , 80 g

58
Carrots - Raw, 1.5 medium

38
Broccoli - Raw, 1 serving

50
Home Made - Yorkshire Pudding, 1 pudding

54

Remove the yorkshire pudding and you're at 500.

Achilles, I don't get how it would work for him then. On twitter he has put he has 600 cals split over breakfast and dinner so only fast he is doing is the lunch. Would this be enough time?

Achillea sorry iPhone grrrrr

no one will go into starvation mode with a one day fast. Starvation mode is for most dieters a red herring and nothing to worry about until you hit a really low body fat %.
One of the scientists on the programme said it didn't matter when you ate the food. If splitting the fast day's calories into 2 meals works for you then do it that way.

I'm going to be trying it on Mondays and Thursdays, starting tomorrow. I am expecting like all things it will take a while to get into and a bit of trial and error. Like others have said any shares on low calorie meals will be great and thanks for those so far- i remember cod in sauce!! I used to eat that years ago when on a diet, with a small portion of rice. It isn't bad, filling which is the main thing. Quorn another good idea.

achillea they were quite specific about protein on the programme but obviously science advances all the time so things may change as new discoveries are made. This from BBC health news related to Horizon programme:

"There is now evidence suggesting that IGF-1 levels can be lowered by what you eat. Studies on calorie restrictors suggest that eating less helps, but it is not enough

As well as cutting calories you have to cut your protein intake. Not entirely - that would be a very bad idea. It's about sticking to recommended guidelines, something most of us fail to do."

also remember he was getting advice from scientists working specifically in this field, they are experts! I would trust what you saw on the programme and anything he later said on twitter as extra info.

I decided to google about Dr Varady
She suggests here just one large meal.

news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=166583

RDA of protein:
food.gov.uk says adults aged 19-50 should eat 55g, aged 50+ 53g

CDC.gov say women aged 19-70 46g , men 56g

RDA in Canada and US for adults is 0.36g per pound you weigh.

but you also have to take into account activity levels. A very active person needs bit more, an athlete lots more. growing children more, elderly and sedentary a lot less.

Most western diets have more than enough protein. Protein is also in grains and cereals, so you'll get it from oats and bread and also in vegetables. Foods with little protein are fruits, sugars, fats and alcohol.

I will be splitting my meals, I wouldnt be able to do it otherwise. We will soon see if it works or not!

Almost 10am and I still havent had a proper hunger pang, which is good. Have had water & pomegranate green tea so far. Feeling fine :) I know I have a long way to go yet though

Thank you for correcting me blackcat, it's hard to work it out as Horizon researched 3 different methods and each had a different physiological effect.

The reason seems to be that when our bodies no longer have access to food they switch from "growth mode" to "repair mode". - it says 'food', not 'protein' (more research needed)

As levels of the IGF-1 hormone drop, a number of repair genes appear to get switched on according to ongoing research by Professor Valter Longo of the University of Southern California. - this implies that IGF-1 levels change relatively to food intake and there is no specific level of starvation required, so it is indeed possible to snack through the day.

The ketogenic diet does something like this but has been researched differently and used for controlling epilepsy, but for the body to reach ketosis I think you have to starve in quite a big way. He didn't go into that on the programme, perhaps that's what is confusing me.

And this one. She indicates why one meal is important.

www.healthyfellow.com/511/alternate-day-fasting-interview-part-1/

achillea it is a bit confusing isn't it!
alfiemama thanks for those links , i shall have a read now.

Go ahead and set one up Kotinka, I will join you on it :)

Good idea kotinka. I'm trying to go to lunch and then split the meal. Just don't think at the moment I can do one big meal.

That's interesting alfiemama, Varady considers eating more frequently throughout the day goes against our hunter-gatherer instincts and that's his reasoning for expecting people to eat between 12.00 and 2.00 but he does say that they need to do more research. The article was written in 2010 though, I'll have a quick(!) google.

Here are some good links to articles if you are scientifically inclined.

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12051710

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8238506?dopt=Abstract

3.www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/1/69

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15333159

5.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12753698

I copied them from here skylertanner.com/2010/04/29/intermittent-fasting-apparently-the-science-doesnt-matter

It seems that 24-72 hours of fasting is necessary for some of the health benefits (if I could understand what they are).

With converted links!

1. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12051710

1. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8238506?dopt=Abstract

3.www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/1/69

1. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15333159

5.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12753698

skylertanner.com/2010/04/29/intermittent-fasting-apparently-the-science-doesnt-matter

I did it for a while a few years ago. It worked quite well (before falling PG). I was doing day on/day off and then went to 3 days off (Mon/Weds/Fri) as I found it very hard to fast over the weekends. I liked it - some days were hard and I just went to bed early.

I saw the Horizon programme and found it fascinating as did DP. We are going to try the 5:2 approach - it seems to me that this is really manageable long term and fits in better with lifestyle (work FT Mon-Fri).

I'm on 500 cals today. I had juicy peach for breakfast and will have a Fuller Longer (M&S) meal for lunch (about 350 cals). Then probably an early night :)

Great links Achillea. Never thought about the animal part and one meal a day

C & P from the other thread:

I also saw the programme and thought it looked interesting for both health and weight benefits.

I am on Day 2 of trying the 5:2 fast. I decided to aim for around 550 calories.

Yesterday I ate as follows:

Breakfast - two small poached eggs with a slice of toasted Vogel soya & linseed bread = 213 calories

Lunch - 2 raw carrots, 4" chunk of cucumber, 5 radishes and a celery stick, sliced into crudites with 20g hummous. 100g fresh strawberries = 172 calories

Supper - 50g grilled chicken, 1 whole pak choi, half a red pepper, 2 spring onions and 5 broccoli florets, all stir-fried with teaspoon of sesame oil, pinch of chilli flakes, pinch of cumin and a few slivers of fresh ginger. 100g raspberries. = 184 calories

Total 569 calories . Although I could have cut it down to 500 by not having the fruit for pudding at lunch and supper.

I drank water and green tea & lemon all day, plus did TDS Level 2, and I have to say I felt fine and didn't feel hungry. The crudites take so long to eat that you feel like you've had a huge lunch!

I wasn't quite up to 100% effort/energy doing TDS, probably more like 85-90% but it wasn't enough to bother me.

I'm doing the same today and then will eat normally for the next 5 days. I generally eat pretty healthily and excercise anyway, so my normal days won't be 'gorging' days. I am curious to see what effect it will have on my appetite by tomorrow evening because my evening meal is normally my main meal as I always have poached eggs on toast for breakfast and a salad/soup type thing for lunch, albeit normally a more calorific/protein rich salad.

This looks amazing. I'm definitely going to try it. My problem is that I have M.E and I can't only eat once in a day; my symptoms get much worse if I don't eat regularly (so at the moment I have a small breakfast and small lunch, something snacky like rice cakes or fruit for tea and then a healthy supper), so hopefully I will still have results if I eat a small amount throughout the day. I think I could skip breakfast and not eat till say 12, but it will be about experimenting for me. If I can't do it, then I'll stop. Would be amazing if the cell repair which supposedly happens as a result of this routine helped my symptoms. It's possible, I suppose.

I think that the research is still ongoing so people can't really say for sure if it's important to go a whole day without food, other than the one meal, or it's the low amount of protein that's key. As far as I'm aware (based on reading I did years ago, so could be completely wrong), fasting puts you into a state of ketosis, which is when the body turns to the fat stores, but that only happens after about 3 continuous days of fasting so it's possibly irrelevant when you eat over one day if that's the only day you're restricing yourself (based on if you spread your fasting days in this 5:2 plan)

The BBC good food website has lots of meals under 200 calories. Some look really nice.

First 500 cal day for me!

What I've eaten:
No breakfast
Porridge at lunchtime (50g oats made up with 100ml semi skimmed milk) = 230cals
2 cups of cherries in the afternoon = 148cals
2 carrots = 73 cals with
80g of natural yoghurt (with minty spicy chutney mix stuff in - ignored the calories in that as there isn't the info on the box!) for tea = 44cals
Total = 495 calories

I'm aiming to do it Mon/Weds/Fri and eat normally the other days. I'll probably drop down to 2 days at 500 cals a week come September as that's when my dance classes start back in the evenings and I don't think I could do a class on 500 cals!

Made this soup tonight for Friday lunch:
www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/2089/spiced-carrot-and-lentil-soup
at 238 cals per serving with a slice of wholemeal bread at 90cals.