Low Carb Paleo Diet/Intermittent Fasting/Intermittent Diet

[GreatEXPATations]

Anyone interested in/following these? If so, want to compare notes and support each other along the way? There was quite an active Intermittent Diet thread until last month but it's died a death [: (]

Basically, I've been researching around the subject for a while and am very convinced by the principles of low-carbing having read Atkins/Gary Taubes/Briffa/IPD/Dukan etc

I've been on a mainly gluten-free diet for over a year anyway (though hadn't realised how v high-carb rice-cakes and the like were!); I've been doing low carb since Jan initially following the clinically trialled and evidence-based Intermittent Diet
www.genesisuk.org/blog/?p=896
with great success but then fell into the Atkins camp and have been playing around with that.

Have been trying to cut back on the yoghurt/nuts/cheese/chocolate/fruit and have managed to give up on yoghurt and fruit for a couple of days and cut back a bit on the others. Made the mistake of having a G&T last night though, which then made eat too many nuts. I've also really been trying to limit myself to a couple of cups of tea with milk a day - am a big tea drinker, so that's hard. And when it's so cold it's even harder! Roll on summer.

Interesting, expat. Might look at those. On the other hand, I think it's possible to spend too long researching all the options and thinking about different approaches. I'm a sucker for googling too and thinking that there's the ultimate effective, painfree diet out there that will render me effortlessly thin. Maybe there is!

I have just started reading "the paleo diet" by Loren Cordain. It is quite interesting how they see Atkins type diets as faddy. I am doing atkins at the moment and when I read the book, the science made sense, especially the high fat. After reading the beginning of the paleo diet I feel a bit confused. It says that you shouldn't eat alot of fat especially saturated as it is not good for your heart but atkins says sat fat is the healthiest. Also it talks about eating fruit in unlimited amounts, this will bring Atkinsers out in a cold sweat . It does make sense to eat plenty of fruit and veg for the antioxidents and vitamins etc buit it's quite hard to get my head around eating more carbs and less fat but still losing weight, IYSWIM. especially when fruit is seen as high sugar and could well reintroduce cravings

I can't be doing with reading 'experts' books,as I've read,and been won over,by so many in my life.

But I've always found I lose weight if I either fast for a day (or whatever) periodically, or only eat an evening meal for a while.

Like you Flava,I started trying to eat 3 meals a day for the kids,and that,combined with giving up smoking,meant weight gain.I was also terrified by the whole 'damaging your metabolism by not eating every 4 hours' thing.

I have discovered its a case of 'step away from the diet books' and apply a bit of logic.I know plenty of people who fast intermittently (whether intentionally or not) or don't eat breakfast,and are neither fat or suffering with an eating disorder.

I am glad that finally a bit of research has backed up that the odd fast won't mean you're destined to increasing weight as you get older as your metabolic rate increasingly slows.Phew! Can I stop force feeding myself breakfast now please!!!

I don't sit happy with Atkins (all that fat!) but aim for as non processed a diet as possible (I'm sure there's probably a 'name' for what I do).I'm sure I'm not alone in finding that once I eat breakfast,I don't stop eating!

Vnmum, yes confusing, isn't it? Had also been reading Atkins, also the Mn boot camp thread then more paleo stuff and there are some opposing views on various aspects. As a huge generalization, paleo stuff seems to suggest moderation in high fat and no need to go into ketosis- Sissons talks about the primal sweet spot for fat loss of 50-100 carbs and 100-150 for maintenance.

Re fat, I don't mean eating paleo advocates only eating moderate amounts of fat, rather not such a huge emphasis as Atkins puts on it. Also calories do still seem to count, which makes sense to me, Just that they're not the be all and end all as per calorie-counting diets. Have a (v unpaleo) hangover do may not be making much sense today!

And Skinny, am with you on the breakfast triggering non-stop eating! Can fast easily for a whole day but once I start, ESP if earlier in day, get SO hungry!

I'm over the moon this morning as I have now lost a total of 4 stone

Vnmum,Yes, Cordain can occasionally be at odds with the Paleo community too!
I've yet to read Prof Cordain's book but I've read many of his articles and watched a couple of his lectures. I think he makes a valid point about fat. Prof.C. says that Paleo man would have come across much leaner animals than we are today and that butter was an unlikely food.

Re:fruit. In my experience, you can eat fruit and still loose weight but you need to be careful of your choices. Like Expat says, it's best to keep your carb count under 100 to lose weight. I think Cordains suggestion is more valid for maintenance. I believe his book provides a glycemic index/load table.

Fava, wow! That is wonderful! How lLong has that taken? Am turning into paleo geek, been happily googling Cordain and his paleo diet. Interesting, v convincing and evidence-based and as was said at odds w Atkins on fat! What the hell to put in my coffee now? Already gone from milk to cream, black just wouldn't be right!

Thank you. It's taken just under 15 months with a 'maintenance' period from July to Jan where I had a massive love affair with root vegetables and almond cakes

Mark Sisson would suggest Coconut milk in your coffee. I discovered jasmine green tea, and need to pick the courage to try olive leaf tea.

Olive leaf? New one on me...!
Have coconut milk in cupboard so shall try it, thanks.

Fava,4 stone is fantastic.I bet you feel great!

Great,its odd isn't it? I find fasting very easy - eating is a challenge!

I enjoy the simplicity of fasting and the mental freedom to think about more interesting things than food, stops the obsession! I also quite like how being hungry feels iykwim, a rare feeling in our easily-sated world.

wow Fava that is a great loss.
expat I have looked on Sissons blog site and am trying to get my head around losing fat while not in ketosis. I know it sounds odd but after being so convinced abouit low carb and needing to be in ketosis to lose fat I am worried that by not being in ketosis I will put weight on (like if I had had a cheat and knocked myself out). I think alot of it is because I have been struggling to lose weight despite sticking to the rules and being in ketosis. I have stayed the same weight now for about 4 weeks give or take 1/2lb despite being in ketosis. My worry though is that my obsession with being in ketosis could turn into a dysfunctional relationship with food. I have Sissons book too so will finish both of them.
Fava and expat are you both doing Sissons paleo and fasting? How often are you fasting and for how long?

Sorry for all the questions but there is not many others on MN doing Paleo

Sorry, long post.

A paleo diet is still low carb/high fat, though often not very low carb (but VLC would not be in contradction to paleo, see dietdoctor ). The body has the ability to burn fat regardless of being in ketosis/full ketosis. We have a few hormones that deal with fat utilisation. I believe the principle is, so long as we provide the body fewer carbs that it would like for maintenance, we should lose weight. Also, choosing paleo carbs with a lower glycemic load (usually full of fibre) will prevent insulin levels spiking, therefore maintaining fat utilisation rather than storage.

fasting and weight loss
Mark's carb curve

I've followed Mark Sisson pretty much all along. Having lost a few more pounds throughout Jan'12, I stalled and in mid Feb -wanting to loose some weight super quickly for an event- I decided to do Atkins phase1 (up to 20g of carbs/day) and lost nothing. After 3 weeks I was so down about it, I returned to eat normal Paleo (roasted carrots and parsnips included) and maintained the weight even throughout the excesses of Easter. At that point I joined BIWI's bootcamp but I kept my berries and nuts and skipped meals instead (shhh) and lost 6.6lb so far.

I hope yesterday's menu will give you an idea:

Breakfast (after 14hrs without food)-
1 fillet of salmon, 2 fried eggs, 200g salad, 2 large tomatoes, handful of olives, 100g mushrooms, olive oil to cook and season and 100g of fresh coconut (there's 15g of carbs on its own!)

Lunch- nothing

Dinner-2 small steaks cooked in garlic and tomatoes, 300g of spinach with 1 onion, a bowl of berries. Washed down with wine.

Snack- some more wine and a bag (90g) of brazil nuts.

Today I have yet to be hungry, despite 45mins of resistance exercise. The menu above is pretty typical for me, except for the wine, which is restricted to weekends. Nut are often substituted by avocados, eggs or veg (I have been know to cook a bag of kale at midnight!)

vnmum It might be that your body needs a period of maintenance before it'll be willing to part with some more weight.

Thanks for the info fava. It is interesting that you also didn't lose on induction. DH has been following low carb but still having carrots and bits of fruit and he has lost lots, he didn't have loads to lose either, whereas i've been keeping to 20g carbs since feb and haven't lost a great deal since the initial 2 weeks. DH has kept telling me to eat more carbs but i've been afraid to. Maybe he has been right all along.
Do you still count your carb grams?
I may have to introduce some fasting to get things moving again. Are daily fasts better or once weekly do you find?

I rarely count the carbs these days or weigh anything. I occasionally weigh things to ensure I still can judge correctly if having something higher in carbs, like coconut- mainly because I can eat a whole one. It's quite difficult to come close to 100g of carb. Even if one ate an entire bag of frozen berries (400g from my supermarket), or a whole cantaloupe melon it would still come under 25g of carbs. It's unlikely one would eat 1kg of leeks at 30g or 1kg courgettes at 50g in one go. However, carrots (cooked), parsnips, celeriac and sweet potatoes can be quite moreish and might even leave a craving for sweet.

Reintroducing a higher carb count did temporarily up my weight, for a few days only.

Well done to your husband. :)

I'm a daily faster, because it suits my life style and it allows me to sit as a family, together for dinner and it forgives the occasional binge indulgence. But I don't think there's a fast rule about fasting. (pun intended, sorry )

I've followed the 'fast/exercise/fast a bit longer' routine (i.e. exercise in the morning skip/delay breakfast) as much as possible this last week or so: I have lost 1 1/2" on waist, 1" from both the top of the thigh and just above the knee but only just over 1lb in weight. DH tells me my muscles look and feel tougher. :) Are you keeping track of your measurements?

I introduced fasting by delaying breakfast a bit each day until eventually it was lunch time... Now, I'm hungry

Fava that piece on fasting and weight loss was fascinating reading!!!

I don't know why I was so swayed by the whole worry that I would damage my metabolism by not eating regularly,when for years I practised fasting successfully!

I normally will fast for a bit of a kick start,usually for 48 hours.However,I have just ordered the book dealing with the alternate day diet,and that looks interesting. For me I believe fasting plays a part not only by restricting your calorific intake (obviously) but also by moderating your stomach capacity.

I understand that low carbing really helps people lose weight,but its not so good for regular exercisers I thought. For that reason,I find it tricky,but also because years ago when Rosemary Conley was all the 'thing' I had great results with a low fat diet,so the thought of such a high fat diet as the Atkins seems somehow wrong. However I certainly believe that a restriction of carbs (and mainly,by that,I mean the more processed carbs) can't be a bad thing.

Exercise and low carb, isn't it a tabu topic?

I tried the original Atkins for a month a few years ago and only lost 3lb but was constantly lethargic. I also tried the new Atkins, I found it much easier to handle but still very tired and head-achy but, more worryingly, I was feeling dizzy after exercise. I only lasted 3 weeks on that regime but I know of people that cope well.

Personal thought about fat (not intended to be prescriptive).
Most people concentrate on the 'high' part of 'high fat' but I think it should be about the fats themselves. For example, I know I eat loads of nuts (omega 6) but I compensate by eating fish and/or eggs (omega3) daily, where the eggs are grass-free-range (higher in omega3). For good measure, I also love my seaweeds and a bit of flax (which has 24.5g of omega3/100g, even if it's ALA). Generally, speaking I keep my PUFA relatively low and I avoid TRANS-fat like plague- cooking does not denature olive oil (high in mono-unsaturated) into trans-fat.

That sounds great Fava - you clearly don't subscribe to the unhealthy levels of unhealthy fats approach!

I follow a combination of the Primal Blueprint Diet, the Bulletproof Diet, and Intermittent Fasting. Basically following the gimmick of the 'caveman' diet, but with lots of added scientific evidence and personal tweaks.

It's not super-low-carb as I eat a fair amount of veggies, including occasional starchy ones. I have 2 large meals a day, sometimes just one, I don't feel the need to eat breakfast or snacks.

I've lost a stone in 2 months, and halted a few nasty chronic symptoms I was suffering with before. I've taken up running too and feel fab!

Well done WannabeEM. That's really great that you are feeling better with this way of eating. I need to loose another couple of stone to be in a position where running is possible but it is a testament to how much better I am feeling that it is something I am even able to consider.

One thing I have been thinking about is lifting weights. Almost everything I have read suggests it is something I should be doing. Any tips from those of you who do?

WannabeEarthMomma- That's a great result. It's wonderful when all those horrible symptoms start disappearing. :)

Whippoorwhill- I have a set of Davina's dumbbells, a weight ball and wrist/ankle weights. I use the weight ball when I do sit ups (using 'total core' ;)) and the wrist/ankle one to just walk around or whilst using my steppers. I used to do body building when I was young and I would never go back to anything harder core than basic dumbbells.

I have adopted a paleo concept. I have just got some Vibram fivefingers shoes. They are fab. so comfy. May get some funny looks but I now want another pair, only got them yesterday . I have to get used to them and then gradually try running in them. I am getting very swayed by the paleo way of life. It all makes so much sense when you read about it . Still not losing any bloody weight though!

I have a pair of VivoBarefoot trainers. These ones in purple.
www.amazon.co.uk/Vivobarefoot-Ultra-Crimson-Trainer-VB210003ECRN/dp/B005F0LC8Y/ref=sr_1_1ie=UTF8&qid=1336929993&sr=8-1
They look a lot more like normal trainers than the Vibrams but have very thin flexible soles and lots of toe room. I've been wearing orthotics for years and they totally solved my heel pain in only a few days. I'm not sure if I could wear the Vibrams, I had a pair of toe socks and the feel of something between my toes drove me crazy.

Damn, pressed post instead of return.

Meant to say thanks to Fava. My son has dumbells and ankle weights so I'll have to go and borrow them. I'm in awe of you doing bodybuilding though. Really hardcore! :)