Misinformation?

[Beeswacks]

I’ve been on mounjaro for 8 months now, privately. My GP knows and is very supportive and talks very encouragingly about it, wishes more of her patients were able to take it.

My neighbour is a gp, nearing retirement age but still working full time. He found out during a discussion about my weight loss that I’m on MJ and started ranting about it, saying 1 in 5 of his WLI patients are having severe side effects and that I should be moving more and eating less, that’s the only way to lose weight.

I did a load of research online before taking them, spoke to lots of people IRL and online. I haven’t had any side effects beyond some constipation, and I feel healthier than I have in decades. It really feels like MJ is fixing something that’s been wrong since childhood, and other chronic issues have cleared up.

As well as being highly unprofessional, he’s just wrong isn’t he? I feel he’s projecting his disapproval onto me and possibly his patients. The only places I’ve seen these sort of statistics are on weird anti vaxx, anti medical treatment websites (my research was thorough), most of which is unsubstantiated nonsense by people who don’t understand risk and statistics.

I do understand there are risks involved, but being morbidly obese put me at higher risk. I’ve discussed this with my own GP who agrees and said that her experience with patients is overwhelmingly positive.

Why do people come out with rubbish about it? I know some people are so ingrained in the view that fat = lazy and stupid, but why spout rubbish about statistics that are easily proven wrong?

Is it projection? You post so much mangled "information" and misinformation yourself, it is a bit rich to accuse others of it.

There is research data going back 40ish years, that is not the same as usage data. And the usage data is for a different purpose with a different population - where it was discovered that weightloss was a side-effect of the drugs. And now there is maybe 5 years of realtime data on glp-1s usage for weightloss, at different dosages and with a different population, which is no time in the scheme of drugs.

A few posts after this one, you are writing this chunk of gobbledegook:
Why d9 people post this stuff. At least google. You don’t need to be very overweight or obese, it’s 27 bmi with some minor health conditions and some pharmacies are now prescribing at 25.

Clearly, you suffer from quite a level of misinformation.

I agree
Unfortunately Google is not an accurate source of real data which is where so many non scientists seem to gather “data” to validate their own argument. In a discussion about real scientific research there is absolutely no need to use insults or be passive aggressive or accuse a poster of jealousy.

I’m sure when thalidomide was first licensed it was recommended by every pregnant woman who was prescribed it. Unfortunately a large number of babies were affected before the medical profession concluded that the common denominator was the drug prescribed in early pregnancy.

Since it is no longer ethical to test drugs on pregnant women I wonder how long before we find out WLI are safe. No doubt there are plenty of women using it and getting pregnant ( by accident). Hopefully there are no risks, but with a drug that is so easy to obtain and the newer one ( still in phase III) which is widely available on the black market, some really playing Russian roulette. Animal studies suggest it is not totally harmless.

@springhyacinths I’m not sure why you’re accusing that poster of misinformation for stating some pharmacies are prescribing to people with BMIs of 27 and lower, that’s true, there are already 2 major online prescribers prescribing both Wegovy and Mounjaro off label to people with BMIs above 25, with no secondary conditions.

I think you’re confused, the ingredients were in trials for 15 years before first commercial use and there is a different between the clinical trials for the ingredients v a branded product. The impact on the human body is something the scientists understand, it isn’t something they say well we can’t extrapolate data as this person doesn’t have diabetes. Thays not how the science works.

and that’s why all the global health authorities and the scientists who work for them have approved these meds for weight loss, they understand the clinical data and the long term impact and risks.

i understand you don’t, and many others, but thay doesn’t mean no one else does.

There is always a risk associated with introducing a new drug to the market hence the length of time that it takes to bring them to the market. But the human trial period is relatively short in this process and the sample groups can be small and selective. You can’t test drugs on pregnant women or children so there is a huge potential for disaster if they are taken by women in early pregnancy when they are unaware they are pregnant. Animal trials have shown low birth weight and an increase in birth anomalies in animal trials.

I will repeat myself since you don’t seem to understand that many drugs that have successfully made it to the market have been withdrawn at a later stage when longterm side effects become apparent.

You also miss the very obvious point that each of the GLP-1 are chemically different but produce the same therauputic effect. You cannot assume that all GLP-1 in development are going to be as safe as those already on the market. Semaglutide acts solely as a GLP-1 receptor agonist, whereas tirzepatide combines the action of GLP-1 with GIP receptor agonism. You cannot use the safety sheet for semaglutide and assume that Tirzepatide is going to have the same side effects.

I understand your faith in Nice but history has shown us time and time again that unless we are cloned a drug can have very different effects on individuals. Consider the Covid injections, I firmly believe they were the right course of action but it wasn’t without casualties.

Our genetic variation is the reason we are all individuals but it doesn’t stop at height , weight and skin colour. A single gene variation can cause some interesting difference in our response to chemicals. An example is ALDH2 deficiency in people of Asian origin. Their ability to breakdown alcohol is impaired as a result so they become intoxicated very easily.

We only find out the full extent of drug reactions when it is rolled out to a larger group. If too many serious side effects , shorter or longterm, are reported the drug is reconsidered. The yellow card warning system means that the medical profession are kept informed of emerging problems. There have been alerts re GLP-1 drugs.

Since the prescription of GLP-1 for diabetes is different dose is frequently lower. The dose is titred until the patient is no longer biochemically diabetic and then maintained at that level with regular monitoring. Weight loss is not the aim, and overdosing a t2 diabetic can result in hypoglycaemic attacks.

I’m not suggesting we ban WLI but closer monitoring is necessary and the introducing of a cheap tablet form will address this since it may become more readily available on the NHS.

Anyone using it to maintain a normal weight ( having never been overweight, or to lose a few pounds pre holiday is taking a huge risk since the drug has not been clinically tested in this group.

@Crwysmam

“Depending on your height, I’m 5’7” to reduce your BMI from 30 down to 24 ( upper end of healthy) would require a loss of 5 stone.”

I’m also 5’7”. A BMI of 30 equates to 13st 9lb, and 24 to just under 11 stone. So it’s a little over 2 and a half stone, not 5. Though 25 is recognised as the top of healthy, and that’s 11st 5lb.

Great post. I’ve been on MJ for 2 years and agree completely with you. Unfortunately I think a lot of us using MJ have found that the ‘concern’ from friends and family isn’t because of the valid points you’ve made but is rooted in resentment that obese people now have an easier way to become slim. Being slim seems to be perceived with a sense of superiority and discipline even though some slim people do nothing to remain slim they just are. I don’t understand the psychology behind it but in my experience western society in general sees obesity as being lazy and gluttonous and therefore it should come with a degree of suffering.

the world health authorities, from the fda to the who, who have some of the top scientists in the world working for them and have access to all the data you don’t, and understand it, In a way you don’t. Disagree with you And clearly think you’re talking shite.

Yes, not sure where that calculation came from. You'd have to be very tall indeed for a 6 point BMI reduction to require a 5 stone loss.

For a bloke of six five, it's around three and a half stone. I couldn't be arsed to work out how tall you'd have to be for the five stone claim to hold, but it's going to be a height not attained by many humans.

Tell that to Dr Patrick Turner. 😂