Six months on max dose. I feel no different, have lost bugger all. Now what?

[ArdAz]

I have about 4 stone to lose. Mid 50s. Sedentary job but I'm active outside of that. My main issues are binge eating at night, too big portion sizes, but my brain tells me I'm still hungry if I try to cut these back too much.

I started MJ last year and have been on max dose for approx six months.

There's been a tiny reduction in my appetite. I recognise I am eating less than I usually do, but the desire to eat crap at night is still huge so it is all still a big battle that I'm losing.

I was so hopeful that MJ would be a magic bullet, but it just doesn't seem to be working on me to reduce the food noise sufficiently for me to be able to reduce my eating to affect my weight.

I am eating a bit less, and have lost a few pounds, but I thought it would be a few stone by now! I just can't see it happening if the MJ isn't quieting my brain.

Has anyone else been on max dose and not just not lost the weight, but not felt that MJ is really helping? Certainly not enough given how expensive it is, which is another issue!

How interesting - haven’t heard of that.

Are you eating 120g protein and 30g fibre a day. Even try 150g protein.

First, can I just say thanks. There's been many kind and thoughtful responses to my OP, when often weightloss posts can just get a lot of critics piling in. So I really appreciate all of you taking the time to read and give me your thoughts.

Funny a couple of you have mentioned ADHD. I was diagnosed in my teens but have never taken medication. I managed to get myself on a list to try it (better late than never, eh!), but it will likely be months away. It would be amazing if this helps when MJ hasn't.

Re calorie deficit. I get it, I need to eat fewer calories. My understanding was that MJ would help me with that, not by burning the calories for me, but helping with the food noise so I ate less. This just hasn't happened.

I know the theories about weightloss - I'm in my 50s and have been overweight for at least two decades. But I can't stick to fasting, just eating at a table, doing things that require willpower basically. I need my head to be sorted so I don't eat when I'm bored, sad, just to feel a taste or a crunch, and that's why I pinned my hopes on MJ - to make those things shout less loudly to me. But it's not happened.

I am heartened to hear there is another drug coming out next year, so I still have hope. That and ADHD meds, and maybe finding someone to do talking therapies with, but CBT for eating issues hasn't worked in the past.

It also helps to know I'm not alone in not responding like so many people do to MJ. Brains and body are weird and frustrating things.

You are clearly very thoughtful OP and I really hope you find something that works for you. Please don't pin your hopes on other drugs, however, whether that's retatrutide, or Elvanse, or something else. The drug isn't a silver bullet. It's a tool to help you to make the behavioural changes. I recognise the feeling of helplessness and lack of control that comes from your most recent post and I'd encourage you to start looking for whatever small, habitual changes you could begin gradually making now. The suggestions that I and pp have made about your evening routine would be one place to start, and you might also want to look at your sleep, and whether you are getting enough. It doesn't have to be a massive, overnight change - it's much more likely to stick if you make small but consistent changes.

Good luck!

Thats such a shame OP. It worked fine for me at first and I lost 5 stone. Now I have amother half stone to lose and I may as well be injecting water. Its just stopped working. Im having to use iron self control.

@ArdAz a lot of the posts suggested you eat fewer carbs or cut out UPFs. Did you pick up on that? What does your current diet look like? Is this something you can try?
Eating better can also reduce food noise.

It doesn’t work for about 15 percent of people op, and if you’re on 15mg and still eating as you are, I’d say you’re in that 15 percent.

the reason is, on that dose, you’d feel sick,full, unwell if you ate like that when it worked, so the fact you can and it’s clearly fine, I’d say for you this med doesn’t work.

id stop, don’t spend any more money, you could try wegovy, you never know. But if it also doesn’t work, I’d not stay as long on it. But likely you will need to go to max dose.

My weight has yoyo'd all my adult life. I've learned that people of a normal weight are comfortable with feeling some hunger before meals. They do not enjoy feeling fully sated. They do not over indulge their desire for the naughty stuff. Unless we can accept normal behaviour around food we will not maintain a normal weight.

I’d maybe start with buying no snacks in, nothing that calorific. I’ve lost 3.5 stone without wli and have done that tracking every calorie as I was an all day snack er, literally I could be eating every hour. The only evening snack I have now is a low calorie jelly and there’s nothing else in the house - my dh was looking for biscuits yesterday but I don’t buy them in now to stop myself. I am
sorry it hasn’t been the help you hoped

Regardless of medication (or not), it still comes down to being in a caloric deficit. It is still hard work, at least it was for me. I didn't realise how much I was actually eating until I started tracking and then how little I actually need.

If it's the snacking that's problematic, have you tried tracking them and allocating that caloric cost into your daily intake? I found that realising the impact snacking had, helped to gradually change that habit. Now if I have a snack, I knock something else out from the day's allowance.

I’m not on WLI but I am working really hard to change my lifestyle and this bit really stuck out for me because it’s my downfall too. I could diet all day long but the 9pm cravings for shite have been the hardest to overcome.

What I learned was this: it is a habit like any other. If I was sitting watching tv for hours I’d want to eat (and drink wine) so I stopped doing that. I’d take myself to bed early with a book and a decaf tea. Or I’d go for a bath. Also find a Diet Coke on the nights it was particularly bad would take the edge off and if I really had to eat, I’d have fruit or cracker bread or some skyr yoghurt.

It’s hard but it’s doable. I don’t find it anywhere near so hard now (I’m about 3 months in so it hasn’t taken ages - still a work in progress but it’s definitely much easier than it was)

Can you get different snacks in the house? Don't have crisps, toast, cheese and nuts in to tempt you. Get grapes, apple slices, berries, popcorn

Zoe project.
I’m 6lb down after a month and have never felt hungry. It’s definitely worth adding in blood results as it tailors your food even more.
if you’re not sure then have a listen to the podcasts. All the cheap carb cravings have subsided and the bakery/ sweets aisles no longer appeal.

I’m losing weight on MJ. Definitely lower appetite. Water is indeed a good idea and I even find tea and coffee fills me up. Small portions all the way. Not cheap but my appetite is less than DHs on Wegovy.

Could you try hypnotherapy. I used it to treat a very bad phobia and it was remarkable. There is some science behind it. Worth a try?

Out of interest, why do you go to bed at midnight? Could it be that from 9pm you are actually very tired and this is making your body crave snacks as a way of getting energy?
Its well know that overtiredness can affect satiety hormones and not getting enough sleep can impact on weight loss.
Have you tried gradually shifting your bedtime earlier to get more sleep?

but I just have a strong compusion to snack on things from about 9pm onwards, and I go to bed around midnight, so that's a lot of time to be grazing on crisps, toast, cheese, nuts. I don't feel full up so can just keep going.

Go to bed! Then you won't just keep eating... or don't keep those things in the house.

Also, go brush your teeth instead of grabbing a snack. That always kills the urge for me.

To be fair I am a night owl and I’m simply not ready for bed until 11.30-12. I genuinely wish it was different. If I went to sleep at 9pm I’d wake up ready for the day at 1am.

Can’t you just snack on healthier things? Cheese, bread and nuts all quite calorific!

It might be worth accepting that you are a non-responder, unfortunately. The food noise SHOULD go or dramatically reduce. 10% on MJ don’t respond. Newer drugs are coming.

I'm going to differ from some people as I love things like crisps and chocolate and wanted to use MJ as a tool to allow me to eat like a "normal" person rather than only eating very healthily.

As a result I've had to work very hard on managing my behaviours around food - MJ helps me eat lower calories, but my behaviours have had to come from my own willpower. I know some people lose weight on MJ without calorie counting or putting in place big changes but for most of us it's not a magic bullet. If you want to keep eating less healthy options I think you do need to calorie count, and you need to identify what techniques can help you change behaviour.

For me, it's things like:

• For the first six months I only bought chocolate of 100 cals or less (small bars) rather than taking portions from large bars or family packs. This was more expensive but removed the element of decision making - I could trust that all chocolate in my house would be a max of 100 cals and could build it into my allowance.
• Chocolate was kept in the fridge so I would eat it slower and I made a rule I could only take one bar out at a time.
• Crisps were also bought in packs of 100 cals or less (think Pom Bears and Skips rather than Walkers and McCoys) and they were kept in the kitchen with me only being allowed to take one pack at a time to eat immediately (my biggest issue was having snacks in my study while working from home and eating mindlessly)
• If after eating chocolate or a packet of crisps I wanted a second, I made myself wait half an hour, during which I would purposefully drink a lot (I've been good at drinking a lot throughout the day but would use this as an opportunity to fill up). If at the end of half hour I still wanted the second snack, I could have it, but first I had to eat a healthier snack such as an apple, some carrot sticks etc... Building in these checkpoint/delays actually stops me over-snacking most of the time.
• I also am a night owl and would snack late at night, sometimes even having a snack five minutes before going to bed. I have imposed an 8pm soft limit where if I want to snack after 8pm I go look at the food and ask myself if I really want/need it at that point. If I do, then I allow myself to have it, but in a smaller portion (I now allow myself to have family packs of crisps and chocolate to portion out, so if I am having a late night snack I will usually portion out just 50 cals worth).

This type of approach might not work for you, but as someone who wanted to continue snacking I have found it really helps. I never go over my daily calorie allowance and I'd say probably 10-20% of my daily calories are on snacks. For context, I've lost over 6.5 stone in about 8 months, and have only just moved up to 7.5mg this week.

Obviously if you are a slow/non responder, this won't help, but the thing I picked up from your messages was that you weren't calorie counting or changing behaviours consciously as you were relying on MJ to do that for you, and whilst that does happen for some people, I think for most of us we need to be proactively choosing to make these changes.

Jumping in on the ADHD topic, my work colleague struggled with alcohol and weed addiction for years, she really tried so hard to wean herself off. Long story short she was diagnosed with ADHD exacerbated by the menopause and eventually got on the correct medication and it’s been life changing for her. She’s been able to stop the alcohol and drugs altogether. She still smokes cigarettes but she says life’s unrecognisable from what it was before the medication.

I mean this gently but do you think you stay up so you can eat. That you look forward to that time, and sitting eating all this stuff is a major part of that,

I don’t think there is any doubt you’re one of the people it doesn’t work for. But I do wonder if this is such a habit for you and such an important one which gives you pleasure, that you need help to break it. Ultimately to lose weight we need to want to be slim more than we want the food.

do you actively look forward to it and plan what you will eat?