Microdosing

[Orangesandlemons77]

Interesting article on microdosing and it being popular in the UK with clinics etc

Microdosing: how ‘off-label’ use of weight loss jabs is spreading from US to UK
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/12/microdosing-weight-loss-jabs-off-label-glp-1-mountjaro?CMP=share_btn_url

I’m sure I saw a video clip recently with Dr Tanya Moore saying what she said about micro dosing has been misinterpreted and she does not recommend it for effective weight loss, she uses it as a treatment for other inflammatory conditions.

To me it looks like those clinics have jumped on the social media hype around micro dosing as it sounds trendy and trying to make money out of it. If Drs are prescribing in a clinic setting I guess they don’t need to follow the GPhC new guidelines and potentially have more scope to go off licence.

Dr Tyna Moore (misspelt name before) who inadvertently started the social media hype on "microdosing" for weight loss when she only intended it as part of a treatment plan for chronic pain, inflammation, metabolic health etc put out a new video on youtube yesterday. She talks about what microdosing is and isn't - it is 1/5-1/10 of the starter dose, it isn't 1/2 the starter dose or dosing partial doses more than once a week etc, it isn't a weight loss strategy.

EP. 221 | The GLP-1 Microdosing Lie: It's NOT a Weight Loss Strategy | Solo -* *

I haven't listened to the whole thing yet but it is pretty clear her thoughts are those marketing "microdosing" as a weight loss strategy are scamming patients and after their money.

It is probably too late, the genie is out the bottle, and people, whether social media Drs or patients who are trying to be their own Drs will continue misusing the "microdose" term for weight loss.

I don't really get it, why the tiny doses help with the inflammation etc whereas higher doses don't?

No, higher doses can also help with inflammation, but Tyna Moore's thing is using tiny doses in people who don't need to lose weight (or not much weight) and so would not be on the standard doses.

However, some people can lose on very small doses. I found Dr Kevin Joseph really helpful on microdosing. He's a hospital doctor who lost a lot of weight himself on sub-clinical doses:

That's just Tyna Moore's definition of microdosing, @NoTouch. There's no agreed definition of microdosing GLP-1s, because the effects of small doses haven't been studied.

It's a bit rich of Moore to object to doctors prescribing small doses for weight loss as scamming patients, while she heavily promotes her "$2,300 online course, GLP-1s Done Right University, includes advice on microdosing" which, as far as I can see, has no more basis in research than any other claims.

I think her initial approach to this was useful: the 'lowest effective dose' is generally a good thing to aim for. But she's very much an influencer, and would not be able to call herself a doctor in the UK. She's a chiropractor and naturopath, and as such can prescribe in the USA, with limitations.

@TryingAgainAgainAgain it is back to what is micro dosing. Dr Kevin Joseph say he considers 2.5mg microdosing. Dr Tyna Moore considers <0.5mg (1/5 of the smallest dose) microdosing.

In real world use many people get effects with 2.5mg and stick with it, so according to Dr Kevin Joseph they are all "microdosing". That doesn't feel like the correct terminology to me and makes me uncomfortable.

Which is why I dislike the whole confusing "microdosing" term and its use either by WLI users to feel part of a trend and needing to be different rather than just having the same treatment for their obesity as the rest of us, or and I think Dr Tyna Moore is right here, Drs and clinics who are not specialists in the drug or metabolism trying to make a fast buck out of peoples naivety................... and she is probably included in that group of Drs too.

I think focussing on the definition of microdosing is a red herring, @NoTouch. (2.5mg was never claimed to be a therapeutic dose by EL, it's a loading dose, so not clear cut.)

Anyone who departs from Eli Lilly's licensed usage is relying on anecdote and their own personal experience - we're off piste, whether under the care of a doctor or not. There's bound to be a lack of clarity as the research is not there yet.

As for wanting to be part of a trend or be different - I was simply terrified of the side effects being overwhelming for me, resulting in failure, again. I was looking for the lowest effective and tolerable dose for me. 1mg gave me very strong suppression, it was an almost surreal experience. That's got sod all to do with being trendy, it's just variability between individuals. Apparently EL are currently testing doses higher than 15mg for those who need them. What is possible and effective will be fine-tuned at both ends of the spectrum.

I can't get too bothered by clinics making a fast buck, they already do that with various medications/procedures. Following your thinking they are only fleecing trend-chasers who don't like to think of themselves needing full dose WLI. Also, people will either lose weight or not, it's not a nebulous outcome that can be scammed.

Microdosing, regardless of which definition you use, has allowed people who are very sensitive to the drug to use it and benefit from it. That's key.

There's another aft misused term to confuse - 2.5mg is not a "loading" dose.

I am not against trying smaller doses for weight loss when experiencing side effects. I wouldn't consider it micro dosing, it is the term that is confusing people.

Why do people need to use misleading, incorrect, labels for what they are doing? Is it because they want to sound more clued up, scientific, or add credibility to their (sometimes questionable) choices? Why not just say I took 1mg as I was worried about side effects. Clear, straight to the point with no room for guess work or confusion.

I can't imagine why you are so resentful about a useful descriptive term.

Plus attached screenshots show that 2.5mg is not considered a therapeutic dose. Again, quibbling about semantics is not useful here.

A descriptive term is only useful if it is actually describing something correctly. It is not semantics when it is completely wrong.

“Starting” dose or “treatment initiation” as shown in your own screenshots are correct terms - a “loading dose” is an initial high starting dose of a medication before reducing to a maintenance dose and irrelevant to WLI.

Yes, you are correct, loading dose is not the correct term. Starting or initial dose used in titration conveys the function of the 2.5mg dose. The key impact, as I said, is that 2.5mg is not a therapeutic dose.

The "descriptive term" I was referring to was "microdosing" which in this context has a useful meaning, even though the exact dose range is not universally agreed upon.

Not classed as a therapeutic dose by EL, I should say, before you pick me up on the fact that it has a therapeutic effect for some.

“Microdosing” is also not a descriptive term as there is no consensus on what it actually means in relation to WLIs and it is being bastardised by social media Drs, one saying it means one thing and another completely different, this confusion has spread throughout social media and it makes the term meaningless without clarification on what each person is doing and thinks it means and therefore it is non descriptive.

Anyway, bedtime for me. Have a good evening.

That is where I started:

"There's no agreed definition of microdosing GLP-1s, because the effects of small doses haven't been studied."

There is no benefit in following this circular argument around again. However, a "descriptive term" does not require set numerical parameters.

Useful discussion of what any of this means for those microdosing (by any reasonable criteria) or considering it, has been avoided in favour of worrying at the definition of terms. Accuracy is obviously vital, but it shouldn't deflect from a wider discussion.

I think the loading dose of 2.5mg is widely misunderstood by health professionals to be sub-therapeutic. (It was even wrongly described on a course I did).

The issue is that MJ has a half-life of around 5 days and so it takes around 4 weeks for the levels to build up to a therapeutic dose. That is what the loading dose is referring to. Once there, for some people 2.5 will be enough but others they will need a higher level to achieve suppression.

It’s just like managing any other long term condition, what suits one individual, won’t work for another. It will take a certain amount of trial and error by patients and clinicians working in partnership to find the right regime for each individual.

Meaningful discussion cannot be had when some believe "microdosing" means a tiny dose of the medication to potentially get benefits other than weight loss and another thinks it is standard partial dose for weight loss to avoid side effects.

It is like I'm explaining the benefit of apples while you are explaining the benefits of oranges. I say yes very high in fiber and you disagree, it high in vit C because we are talking about fundamentally different things.

But you are right, no point in disrupting such "meaningful" discussion so I'll bow out and leave the confusion to it.

This seems to hold a lot of emotional weight for you, @NoTouch.

Who exactly is confused? Anyone diverting from Eli Lilly's protocol knows that they are choosing not to follow the prescribed path, and therefore needs to take responsibility for that themselves, whether it's 0.2mg, 2mg or split dosing.

You want to stop a circular conversation, stop going in circles and tagging me.

I have a reasonable opinion that does not align with yours. Fair enough. It does not mean I am "resentful" or holding "emotional weight" those are such odd conclusions from my posts which only set out my own opinion without getting personal.

I have hidden this thread as it is going nowhere and of no interest to me, please stop tagging me for further responses.

I agree with NoTouch - there is confusing terminology in the media about micro dosing and it isn’t helpful to compare apples with oranges.

Scenario One - Taking a small dose, at a level that won’t cause appetite suppression, but may help with inflammation and be beneficial for conditions such as arthritis.

Scenario two - media articles, often discussing users who are not actually overweight and who are probably using MJ incorrectly to attain skinniness. I’m sure this is prevalent in certain industries/circles but is clearly off licence use.

Scenario three - people experimenting with doses either for maintenance, to manage side effects, or to balance their budgets.

You'll have seen NoTouch's post explaining that 2.5mg is not a "loading dose" then, @HereIGoOnceMore?

A lot of the media report many heath issues misleadingly. No one should be getting their understanding of WLI or microdosing from commercial, non-specialist media.

Anyone else microdosing and seeing results quickly? I was sceptical but have been very pleasantly surprised.