To think threads and posts where posters are encouraging sneaky ways to obtain MJ to be removed by MNHQ?

[FedUpOfItYes]

Not a TAAT. I've just seen this all over the place now and it's worrying.

This is becoming a rather dangerous territory. Posts and some threads where people are willingly talking about how to do this and do that so that someone who isn't qualified can then qualify for Mounjaro. No other prescription med will be allowed to be dealt with this way as it's really irresponsible to say the least.

On one of the reddit and facebook forums I lurk in, anything outside the manufacturer's guidelines isn't accepted and promptly deleted if posted. I think I'd like to start reporting dangerous posts giving people tips on how to fraudently get Mounjaro. We already have a bad name as it is and this is the last thing genuine users need.

If you're going to get fraudulently, feel free to go through the back door with fellow posters who don't care to follow the rules and like every other person trying to obtain medication fraudulently. I know this can't be stopped but it's shameful for this to be spoken about so openly and accepted as the norm. I really don't want mumsnet to be known as one of the places where you can see this types of irresponsible and dangerous conversation regarding Mounjaro. It's not helpful to potential users for one. This is a serious medication. A prescription medication. I don't see what's so hard to get about it.

Sorry for my rant but I'm pissed!

Sober up then or go to bed 🤣🤣

Nah just joking.

I make you 100% right but I think you would've been better to start this thread in Site Stuff.

OP I do report threads and posts like this.
You're quite right.

Fuck, didn't mean to quote the opening post 😳

I hate it when people do that.

Perhaps I should go to bed 😊

How would MN determine what is outside manufacturers guidelines and what is dangerous practice? There are some practices that are very low risk, others not.

They would need a full time moderator for this board alone!

What about other medications elsewhere on the site?

I understand what you mean but don't think it is viable.

Something else that's creeping in (but I accept HQ can't do anything about it), is when someone starts a thread now about wanting to lose weight, instead of everyone giving dietary advice, so many people are jumping straight in with 'take the drug'.

It's not nice to see that recommended first.

I suppose my title should have said "...to be reported to MNHQ so they can remove it" instead of "...to the removed by MNHQ". I know mods don't have to be the ones deciding what is dangerous advice - we do because we know if we've read the guidelines. It's why it's not on site stuff because I'm not asking the mods to automatically do the work and decide, I'm saying genuine posters on here (who want to) should be reporting them like a pp does instead of leaving them up.

The reddit and facebook forums i mentioned also work on posters reporting, they're not automatically deleted. It's just in their group rules as a given to be removed once reported/pointed out.

@TheShellBeach Can I ask, what do mnhq mods do when you report? Do they remove them or decide it's not against mumsnet's talkguidelines so should stay? Like I wrote on my op, I'll have to start reporting every single one of those posts when I find them.

Report them if you’re worried. MN moderates on the basis of reports. Then MNHQ can decide.

And/or start a thread in Site Stuff about your specific worries and ask MNHQ to tell you what their policy is on these matters. Perhaps it is a work in progress, like their thinking on a number of potentially controversial topics.

I report codes, rudeness and dodgy posts. Reckon MNHQ must be sick of me! 😂😂

We have to be responsible and help make this board into what we need it to be.

To be honest I don’t think it’s possible for this board to be moderately properly. I imagine it’s overwhelming for MN to keep up with all the discount codes being spread around, let alone the dodgy advice. The medication has ballooned in popularity and they probably didn’t anticipate the surge in posts.

I would like a crackdown on people posting about microdosing or using “bonus doses” etc. I’m at the end of my MJ journey so I suppose it’s a moot point now, but it did make me feel uncomfortable at the start seeing how openly using the medication outside of the guidelines is not only discussed, but encouraged on here. It’s a bit weird having a patient advice leaflet in front of you and matching pharmacy guidance, contrasted with plenty of posters doing whatever with the medication. I never really see this kind of culture with other medicine. I’m not surprised that there’s also people advocating to get the medication by any means necessary.

I don’t really think safe and best practice is always followed on here which makes it a bit unsafe. When participating in this board you sometimes have to mentally filter out a lot of what you see, and I imagine people who are more vulnerable can easily get influenced by dodgy advice.

@WhateverMate I know some people feel strongly specifically about the injections even though they are a valid weightloss suggestion for those that are eligible that is regulated and it is not dangerous practice/advice to suggest them. I have strong feelings about the Cambridge Diet and Slim Fast but respect others have different opinions.

@FedUpOfItYes The mods would still need to make the decision on whether the report post is dangerous practice. They should not remove posts based on the word of the reporter as someone might report based on their opinion, who decides? What you consider dangerous I may consider low risk (or vice versa). It also leaves open, does MN need to decide on all medical information on the whole site? It is clearly stated throughout MN that it does check the qualifications of anyone on here giving advice whether it is medical, financial, etc. It is a minefield and probably unsustainable for MN to take responsibility for this.

I'm not sure what you're actually advocating or why you seem so discouraging about reporting the objectively dangerous practice people have suggested here. When some people have expressly stated for others to stuff their pockets so they weigh heavier than they really are or to lie about their height or weight to qualify, I can't see how unclear those and similar things are to actual fraudulently getting this prescription medicine. Like you say, mn would decide and I want to believe they have common sense enough to know what should be posted and what is bordering on illegal or irresponsible medical advice at best, not opinions or feelings.

If you're following some "low risk" practices outside the guidelines yourself, fair enough it's your body and you can do so in the privacy of your own home, but I don't see why you'll want to post them as advice or suggestion to others so badly, especially to those who just started and need proper medical guidance for this drug.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean I object to the reporting of dangerous practices, I am saying I don't think it is sustainable/realistic to expect MN to do it for any medical or any other advice on the site.

I've not seen anything like that mentioned above and I don't like people using clicks to get more weeks from a pen but Mumsnet is run by volunteers isn't it? They rely on us flagging stuff up. I do. Often

Do you mean this? It is on the top of the weightloss forums and when you have any post opened in here -

"Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet."

That is on the desktop/safari, not sure if anything shows in the app.

I thought the mods were all employees. There are some night watch who I think might be volunteers with more limited "powers" and don't have the MNHQ userids. But I could be completely wrong!

Even from this thread you can see that there are genuine differences in opinion about what is acceptable. I don’t see how this proposal would work.

I have a lot of sympathy with your position, OP, and I think that long-standing users of the board should be encouraged to report threads where the poster is looking for tips on how to obtain the drugs fraudulently. Nevertheless, a huge amount of the traffic on this board is the exchange of tips and tricks about extracting bonus doses, counting clicks etc, and they would probably have to go too.

I'm mostly deeply irritated by, and increasingly concerned about, the number of posters who are tipping up to the board having clearly done zero research of their own and asking for a full detailed explanation of GLP1s. It is pure laziness. I would quite like a collective decision that these people will be ignored or told to bugger off and take some responsibility for their own research!

It's a really difficult one. There's an active thread at the moment with the op asking 'BMI 29.8, do I just put on a few more lbs?!' There's a similar one every few days. We could argue that this post should be deleted because it's inevitably invited others to post hints and tips about how to dupe prescribers. And for all we know, the poster or others who read it, might actually have a bmi of 19! However, posts like this also encourage discussion about the criteria and why they exist, risks vs benefits, side effects, other weight loss options, etc, etc which might actually help the poster make a more 'risk aware' decision.
Even among current users of MJ, opinions about the rules and what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable behaviour are very diverse and often highly entrenched. There's little or no consensus amongst medical professionals in the UK, let alone amongst us - we're all pretty much making it up as we go along, drawing on our own experiences, the research we may or may not have read and the information we get from other users; all with little or no effective, personalised input and oversight from medical professionals.

I'm afraid this will keep happening as people keep thinking it's okay to lie to get prescription meds and some people are saying "oh it's only just..."

It's a slippery slope. I've been reporting those posters that tell people to fill their pockets and falsify their weight at the doctors. This is a scandal waiting to happen tbh.

I think that MN has a responsibility to not facilitate people obtaining drugs by deception. So I agree with you OP.

But... I do laugh. In every other thread about weight the majority of posters say BMI is notoriously unreliable, but with WLJ threads BMI is gold standard.

It's not "gold standard" it's what the prescribing criteria are. That's the point here. There's a cutoff, it is currently set at a BMI of 30 (or actually also 27 or higher with weight related health conditions, or if the patient is one of a list of specific ethnicities). Whether or not BMI should be the prescribing criteria is a possible discussion, but that's what it is at the moment.

I understand where you're coming from but honestly, I think it's King Canute vs the tide. These things are revolutionary and the answer to everyone's prayers and micro-dosing is going to become the norm - if you're someone who is say, BMI 23/24, but is exhausted by the effort/ constant discipline/self-denial required to maintain that , and someone comes along and says,1.25mg of this a week will just take the edge off and you'll be free of your cravings enough to maintain easily, they're gonna say "hell yeah".

In 5 years time it's going to be 1.25mg of MJ and your multivits in the morning. The remedy to an obesogenic environment.

If the Gov/ regulators were that worried about it they'd have clamped down already- it's the Wild West and it's not like they don't know it. Makes ADHD meds look well controlled. But they'd probably rather be a bit loose and at least people are getting the actual MJ rather than they're buying DIY kits from Darren at the gym. If your concern is that the government will go "right this is why we can't have nice things. MJ is banned" that is NEVER going to happen. The genie is not going back in the bottle on this one.

Apparently they're going to launch in China soon and they'll probably be able to buy it in 7/11.

My point is that for every other situation where BMI is a factor, posters are lining up to tell the OP that the meanie doctors are just fat shaming them, and they must browbeat their doctor for statins/IVF/whatever, but for WLJs, BMI is apparently infallible.

I haven't seen posts like that at all, and as far as I'm aware BMI isn't relevant for statins, it's about a risk score. No one is going to argue with any conviction that being obese is not going to affect the outcome of IVF, no matter how much they might wish it not to be true.