Weaning off MJ

[netmum123MJ]

Hi is anyone trying to taper off Mounjaro? I have used for a few months lost 20lbs however everytime I try to stop I am back to square one with food noise and over eating. Will I be on this forever?

But your logic is going round in a loop there. You start with the assumption that we are fully in control of how much we choose to eat - whereas there's lots of science that suggests we're not - some of us struggle much more with hunger and cravings (even when we "should" be full) and that's why we struggle to lose weight and maintain the loss.

If you want to continue thinking you're greedy and lazy that's for you to decide, but the science really wouldn't agree. Try reading "Why we eat (too much)" by Andrew Jenkinson.

@HippoPortlyMouse couldn't agree more with your post. I'm absolutely over thinking it's a moral failing to have weight struggles.

The data on Mounjaro is really, really clear. When you stops taking it, you regain the weight. The evidence is overwhelming.

There will always be a medical outlier - the person or very few people that keep the weight off. These people are the rare exceptions. Not the norm.

We can build all the habits we want, eat all the boiled eggs and hit our nutritional goals, but most of us will need some sort of maintenance dose forever if we want to keep the weight off.

That’s just how it is.

I agree with this @AgathaMystery - to me, anything else already feels like it would just be a case of walking the same familiar tightrope having lost the weight… ie just a matter of time before life gets in the way of my iron-clad willpower and the weight piles back on.

I’m just hoping it can be more of a 2.5mg sized maintenance dose than a 15mg one!

Has anybody managed to get a low maintenance dose prescribed? I tried to get the lowest dose wegovy re prescribed today and they rejected me and I can’t even go on and explain why I want the low dose again…. I’m not sure how I can get it again as my bmi is normal?

Have you got the stats on that? As I've read quite the opposite.

If you come off MJ and go back to your old habits and eating patterns of course you will gajn weight. Just like any diet or weight loss programme.

It is not a given you'll gain weight, especially if you stay on a calorie controlled diet.

But your logic is going round in a loop there. You start with the assumption that we are fully in control of how much we choose to eat - whereas there's lots of science that suggests we're not -

@85reasons I guess that's where we have to agree to disagree, because I do believe that you are fully in control of what you eat. Unless someone is tying you down and force feeding you.

My weight gain isn't due to anything other than having a really bad diet from my own choosing.

I'm not saying that's the same for everyone but it is for me.

The stats I've seen is that a year after being on Mounjaro for 36 weeks and losing approx 21% of their starting weight, those on a placebo had regained about half of the weight they'd lost, on average. So back up to having lost about 10% of their original starting weight. Those that continued on Mounjaro for that subsequent year lost another 5% of their starting weight. So both groups were still on average lower than their starting weight.

(www.secondnature.io/guides/lifestyle/glp1s/mounjaro-weight-regain#)

I'm also trying to figure out how I'm going to manage off MJ as I don't have a great deal left to lose now.

I listened to Jason Fung's The Obesity Code and there's a lot of interesting stuff in there about what drives weight gain and induces the body to think it has a higher set point weight. The key seems to be managing blood sugar/insulin levels - important especially if you were prediabetic/insulin resistant before going on GLPs. I'm hoping I can get to understand the cause of my weight gain better so that I can know the things I should avoid doing that caused it in the first place.

I know you think it's different for you - but I can assure you I've spent decades thinking exactly the same thing and have finally freed myself from those shackles. It's extremely liberating. Mounjaro has really helped me with that - for the first time I really can "take or leave" that second biscuit and put a half eaten anything back in the fridge. I'm sorry but I don't think people who've been like that their whole lives are any stronger or less greedy than me - they just genuinely can take or leave those things.

We all have our own circumstances, our own struggles and our own journeys with our weight, and we can all only fight our own battle. Like @SnacklessWonder, I mainly put on weight because I ate and drank too much every day for a prolonged period (starting with lockdown) and I didn’t exercise. I was greedy. Prior to that, I’d been a healthy weight my whole life. I could take or leave the extra biscuit, I could put half eaten things back in the fridge, I could keep chocolate in the cupboard for months without fancying it. Then, for a variety of reasons, I started saying yes to the extra biscuit and eating the chocolate (and drinking the wine).
I can’t stay on MJ for life, it’s not an option for me. I can do anything else in my power to not put the weight back on, though.

Maybe we can support each other @ItsAlrightDarling as I feel like we may be alone!

I’m up for that!

This mirrors by experience also.

@SnacklessWonder my field of work/study is endocrine research so I truly love this topic, and have been taking Mounjaro for 7 mths myself. The quickest way to grab stats is to read the literature reviews. They are updated all the time as the studies on these drugs are so new (not the drugs per se).

Clinical trials and studies indicate that the weight regain can be significant after discontinuation of the drug, with some reports showing that participants regained around 50% of their lost weight within a year after stopping the medication. This obvs occurs because the drug suppresses appetite and modulates the body’s metabolism, effects that diminish after discontinuation.

You can have a look here - biomedres.us/pdfs/BJSTR.MS.ID.008226.pdf
SURMOUNT are good clinical trials to look at too.

Thanks @AgathaMystery I will have a read.

There is loads of really interesting stuff and I think these drugs will now evolve rapidly - the money is there now.

I guess for me, it’s about separating the emotions of weight and the morality and judgement. It’s a drug. Take it, it works. Stop taking it, effects wear off. It’s not a failing of a person, it’s just the drug wearing off.

I can’t wait to see further applications if it, esp for impulse control / addiction etc.

This is why exercise, particularly weights, is essential.

I get that entirely. But as I said, we’re all different and all our weight journeys are different. I know the effects of the medication will wear off, that goes without saying. But I maintained a healthy weight for 35 years and I have to have faith that I can do it again, with a lot of hard work.

And I know you’ll think I’m being naive and ridiculous!

I guess it's how you deal with the effects wearing off @AgathaMystery and as we've touched on, the reasons you are overweight in the first place. (not "you" specifically!)

Any weight loss programme has the rebound effect. Cambridge diet, Slimming World etc you stop doing it, you put weight back on.

I've not read the link you sent yet but I'd be interested to know how many of the people studied went back to old eating habits and how many made significant life changes.

I guess as time goes on with the amount of people now using these drugs, we'll start to gain a better picture.

I’m the same as you. I can’t even say I’m greedy, I just didn’t make the right choices re food when pregnant and bf DD1 and i gained the weight and I've been within 5kg of same weight for almost 11 years, even with 2 more children.
We always eat home cooked meals, barely have take aways because it’s just too expensive and I don’t plan on cutting it out for the few we have in a year, I don’t drink alcohol or fizzy, etc. so I can maintain my weight, I just can’t lose it. I’m on MJ now to lose the 27kg, get to the healthy weight range and maintain on my own. I can’t afford to be on MJ long term.
I’ve taken up exercises now, invested in some weights, etc all set up in the garage as I know I may get tired of going to a physical gym, I plan to exercise 4 to 5 days a week and eat sensibly when I’m off this and I’ve told dh to hold me accountable. I know I can do it, dh currently eats everything he fancies and because he works out a lot, he has never gained any excess weight. I also plan to do everything in my power to stay off MJ once I’m at my goal weight.

Not attacking you as the poster, a couple of people have said similar.

The annoying thing with this advice is: if it was that easy a person wouldn't need MJ in the first place. Surely most people are on it because diets she advice like this don't work. Similar to the "ignore the food noise" advice.

It just feels really hard. Why is it different when a person comes off MJ to how it would have been before they were on MJ. MJ is the critical factor that makes sensible eating possible.

@ChatChapeau I've used the time on MJ to reset - build healthy habits. I'll always stick to a calorie-controlled diet now - 1600 is my maintenance calories. Gym, workouts, minimum 10000 steps a day. I eat healthier- prioritising protein and fibre. I've learned more about nutrition. I eat a more vegetarian based diet, I drink litres more water. All sustainable changes.

I agree and said similar on another thread.

People keep talking about their new lessons on diet and exercise but none of them mention the big food noise that's supposed to be the main problem for most.

The main question should be what happens when the food noise and cravings come back in full force after Mounjaro, and it will as those who're post-MJ have all said? Can you fight them when you couldn't do so before? Only MJ helped you do so in the first place in order to then be able to make the right food choice so how will that change? That will be the key to sustaining without Mounjaro if it can magically disappear unless food noise and cravings, hormonal imbalance/insulin resistance, etc (anything else besides diet and exercise) are not an issue for you (general 'you').

Thanks for your reply.

How long were you on MJ? And how did the reset take?

I feel like it will be a while before I truely learn new habits. For example, I lost weight slowly through diet and exercise in the past, keeping it off for 6- 18 months, but then it slowly starts to creep back on again and life gets in the way of my habits.

Maybe I need more faith in myself - or better systems - but I'm worried this will be no different once the food noise etc is back. It's something I truely worry about.

Food noise was never my problem. I just overate at every meal (not by a huge amount, but it doesn’t take a huge amount for the lbs to pile on over time) and drank too many calories in wine.