You shouldn't take weight loss drugs. Learn about healthy eating, eat less and exercise more.

[GapTshirtsAreShitQualityTheseDays]

This is like telling an insomniac "don't take tablets, just get more sleep"

I'm 41.
I have tried.

I KNOW all about healthy eating. Probably more than most slim people.
I don't have an emotional/binge eating disorder, I just have a bigger appetite than most people. I can only control it so long via willpower or low-carb diets. The drive to eat is the most powerful instinct known to man (except maybe breathing)

It's the weight loss medication that takes the edge of said appetite and ALLOWS me the space to make sensible decisions on food.

I've gone from 15 stone to 9 stone (I'm short). If these drugs had been invented 20 years ago, my life would have been much better.

And no, I didn't steal the drugs off a diabetic. I got private prescriptions for Wegovy and then Mounjaro which are only marketed for weightloss.

And yes I am quite prepared to take the drug forever if necessary.

And no, I don't care about the "potential unknown long term side effects" because they can hardly be worse than what I was facing with obesity.

And although exercise is beneficial for many reasons, it is a fairly trivial factor in weightloss.

Did what?

As for depression meaning you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, there's no reliable evidence that says that, that's an old theory, and even though anti-depressants work on some people they actually don't know why that is!

It's often caused by stressful life events etc. That's nothing to do with having a chemical imbalance.

For some people, stressful life events leads them to depression. For others, it's caused by a chemical imbalance (increase of certain enzymes, low levels of key neurotransmitters, etc) and no stressful life event in sight, at least bad enough to cause depression.

For the former, anti-depressants MAY help with the low mood but doesn't change what they're depressed about (It can only be changed by the situation being solved).

For the latter who're said to have 'clinical depression', AD will help (if they find the right one for their system) and they can go about their lives 'normally' because they weren't depressed about anything to begin with - it's just that some thing(s) in their brain isn't/aren't functioning properly and need help to function the way they should. In this case, it really is a disorder. Hence why some have the diagnosis of Depressive Disorder, etc. It's a lifelong condition and not just situational.

This isn't for those with clinical depression - an actual disorder, not just 'feeling depressed' about something. All those 'solutions' don't help Depressive disorders even when those who have it do them religiously. Talking therapy doesn't either because you cannot talk your way out of a chemical imbalance.

No I’m not gettting information from the 00’s
Plenty of people are being helped all the time now by finding out why they overeat. I have several colleagues and friends who are currently on programmes with weekly and even daily sessions with coach / councillor / nutritionist. Taking a closer look into the emotional causes. Relationship with food throughout their lives. Many people find it a complete revelation not only for their relationship with food but with other aspects of their lives they never connected.
Then there is the whole education around types of foods and what each food does to your body and how each food will make you feel short and longer term. How that affects your hunger levels and cravings. How to feel hunger and support them daily through this journey. It’s actually fascinating because there is always something new to learn.
But as evidenced on this thread it’s a growing trend to bypass all that and inject with drugs. I just find it worrying.

Apparently it’s not a chemical imbalance now according to PP. It’s all changed but they still don’t know what it is. 🤣

No, not everyone, apparently it doesn't work for everyone anyway.

Prevention will be key for the future, how they will manage that I don't know, but I do think that part of it is going to be about telling people straight out if you become obese then it will be most likely permanent no matter how much you try to lose weight. Currently people aren't aware of that because they're always told that they can lose it.

But you don't agree with that message either because you apparently don't believe it despite studies showing that less than 1% of obese people return to a healthy weight and even out of that small amount I don't know how many actually stay at a healthy weight!

Presumably that has to be by far the lowest rate of recovery from any kind of addiction. More people manage to recover from heroin or crystal meth addiction than that.

When smokers manage to quit it's because once they get past the hard part it gets easy and many rarely even think about smoking....now of course they can always relapse but in the meantime they do mostly have freedom from the addiction. If smokers never got over the cravings then no one would ever stay off smoking.

So it would be great if prevention did work in future, but that doesn't help the current population of obese people who have often tried and failed repeatedly using the very methods that you're telling them to use.

It's true.
You could have googled in the time it took you to write that post.

Here's the first page of google results. Have a look through the first couple of pages and you'll see plenty of journal articles along with news articles referencing the research 😃

https://www.google.com/search?q=scientists+don%27t+know+why+anti+depressants+work&rlz=1C1GCEA_enIE1095IE1095&oq=scientists+don%27t+know+why+anti+depressants+work&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTEyNTA1ajBqNKgCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Well yes but it’s so much harder than smoking because you need food to survive. So you can’t escape it.
If an obese person was sent to a desert island where there was only unprocessed food to eat that they had to harvest themselves then they would get to a healthy weight and stay there.
Its criminal whats all around us to eat now. So cheap and literally everywhere you turn. That’s why it’s so hard to lose weight and keep it off. It required a fortitude of strength and determination, which for many is just so hard.

Yup I did Google it. The first thing is says was ‘it’s not clear if chemical brain changes are the cause of depression’
They don’t know.

I'm not just talking about 'feeling depressed' about something, which generally passes quite quickly.

Clinical depression can very much be caused by stressful life events.
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/clinical-depression/causes/#:~:text=There's%20no%20single%20cause%20of,events%20can%20cause%20clinical%20depression.

Read further and you can educate yourself some more

I said in the first post about this that As for depression meaning you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, there's no reliable evidence that says that, that's an old theory....

which is true. There's a study linked in this article.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/20/scientists-question-widespread-use-of-antidepressants-after-survey-on-serotonin

Insulin and hormones involved in its production were known, but not directly connected to hunger; insulin is known to affect appetite, but couldn't be used for weight control because of the risks.

The first human trials of GLP-1 were in 1993.

Leptin was discovered in 1994 by Zhang et al. The discovery of leptin was a major milestone in the study of obesity and the molecular mechanisms that control body weight.

Ghrelin was discovered after the ghrelin receptor (called growth hormone secretagogue type 1A receptor or GHS-R) was determined in 1999.

Oh yes you triggered my memory from one of the old threads about ozempic.

https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/35004-her-scientific-breakthrough-took-5-years-getting-credit-took-decades/

The history behind ozempic was very interesting too. I believe early on they realised it could be used for diabetes or weight loss, but they went down the diabetes route because it would have been easier and faster to get approval.

Google isnt going to give the latest research ideas/theories anyway.
But rather the most clicked through websites

Relying on a Google search to know about medical stuff is never going to tell you what’s ‘true’ or our latest understanding

In general, the weightloss is not quick, after an initial large loss in the first week or so (water weight) most users see it drop to 1 or 2 pounds a week. It may appear fast, but I think it's because it's a pretty consistent weightloss. No losing a pound to gain 2 the following week. It's either no loss or a pound a week, so the trajectory is downwards.

I've lost 3.5 stone in 6 months which includes weekends away and 2 AI holidays.

I have a bit of wrinkly skin on the top of my thighs on on my stomach. But I'm mid 50's too, so that may contribute.

The human body is perfectly capable of fighting off infection.

Not in all cases, but most minor infections don't need drugs.

Most people can lose weight through diet and exercise. Some people can't.

Whitelily's posts have been really useful actually, in making me think about the fact that I've been fat all my adult life despite all the diets, gym memberships, exercise equipment, special food, therapy, the overthinking, the misery, the crying, the self hatred and I'M STILL FAT.

Its given me the final push i needed to look properly at trying mounjaro. Thanks whitelily!

So please do share your secret of what support is available.

Suggesting that all it takes is hard work and dedication suggests you think us fatties are just lazy.

In my case i have various invisible disabilities that impact my ability to lose weight. But, I'm more than happy to put the work in, and have tried many, many times over the years. If you've got the magic key, please share it.

I'm really pleased you've found something that works for you, weight and diet is so misunderstood. Height is also challenging, it's amazing the difference in calories burned by just a few inches in height and yet I can't imagine the desire for hunger universally correlates to reflect that.

We need an overhaul of the food industry, I think that has a lot to answer for, for where we are today.

Desire for food, or hunger, nobody is desiring hunger!

Its criminal whats all around us to eat now. So cheap and literally everywhere you turn. That’s why it’s so hard to lose weight and keep it off. It required a fortitude of strength and determination, which for many is just so hard.

Yeah... That's what we've been trying to tell you.

So your solution is "just try harder". Just educate yourself on how you're killing yourself with processed shit food. Be more like me - eat healthy food. Well thanks for that groundbreaking advice. Never heard that before.

We know all that already. How can we possibly have missed all the scorn that's been piled on fat people for decades? All the advertising and media that's always told us we are lazy, stupid, uneducated, lacking willpower, weak, and less worthy than a slim person because we are fat? Do you think if it was only ever just a case of trying harder, and getting away from these messages that we are bombarded with, we would have done it years ago?

Perhaps if society weren't so judgemental and fatphobic, it would be easier to just try harder. But as above, you've also made me wonder -

What if the chemical imbalance in my brain that caused my depression also causes my problems with food, and just like depression, i can't "willpower" my way out of it? Mounjaro, here i come.

We have to remember that

Shit food is everywhere and it's akin to leaving recreational drugs in a table to a user and telling them not to take them.

They are addictive They are designed that way. The only food in nature that contains fat and carbs is milk particularly breast milk. What does that tell you about it's comforting qualities.

It's plentiful and fairly cheap

Food is also an emotional crutch for many so back to the breast milk theory.

Hunger is a distressing uncomfortable condition.

Processed food a
Have messed up our hormones gut biome and nutrient cravings They keep us Full But don't give us nutrients. Our bodies have plenty but we are malnourished in vitamins and minerals.

It's a crime akin to Tobacco in
My opinion.

And yes
I'm on MJ and have
Lost 17lb so far and yes some
Jealous people have said stuff to me. And I don't care.

I haven't looked in detail as my interest is more general. I have noticed a few studies being talked about on it possibly being good for other ageing concerns, very recent study.

I still don't think @WhiteLily1 has substantiated the strong claim it will 'ruin your insides and outsides'

Where is the evidence it ruins your insides, and losing weight however you do it will result in a slimmer face

@HeBeaverandSheBeaver yep, and what's more you can go T total or ban yourself from drugs, but we all have to eat. No going cold turkey on that.

I think given you have been very over weight yourself, you would actually have a more open mind.

You, shockingly, ignored my dyslexia analogy earlier. So let’s try again.

3 people take a test.

Person 1 grew up in a middle class household with educated parents. Has no additional needs. Goes to a very good school.

Person 3 grew up similar to person one, but has dyslexia. As their parents had disposable income they accessed additional help for person 3

Person 3 grew up in a poor household where their parents didn’t value education, its wasn’t a healthy environment AND the child has dyslexia. The school they go to isn’t great as their parents couldn’t afford a house in a better area. The school didn’t pick up on the dyslexia until recently and the child has always been written off as just doesn’t try hard enough.

The test is difficult for all 3 of them. But hugely varying amounts. Person 2 & 3 get additional time for the test. But there’s still a massive gulf between them.

YOU may think you find it’s as hard as someone who has opted for Mounjaro. But actually you don’t know that. Don’t you think there’s a slight possibility, that while losing weight was hard for you, it’s still nothing compared to some other people.

You, apparently, managed it. So chances are your ‘hard’ wasn’t as hard as the Ops. Or are you so passionate about this narrative because it makes you feel superior? Insisting it’s just as hard for you and you did it, means op just isn’t trying hard enough. You tried hard enough and that’s a big piece of who you are?

Suffering for weight loss isn’t the brag you think it is. Outwardly suffering for your weightloss and trying to belittle other and convince them they just aren’t trying as hard as you, isn’t a flex.

I remember slimming world doing a segment on how a someone with PWS had lost weight on Slimming world so anyone with PWS could. Totally forgetting there’s a huge range of severity of the syndrome. One person with PWS being successful doesn’t mean all will be. Other people with PWS may find it easier, others may find it harder.

If you have good noise to a deafening amount that it’s ruling your life, I suggest you speak to a medical professional. It’s no way to live for anyone. And it’s clearly not making you happy.

No one is telling you to take the injections. No one is judging you for not taking them. Those that criticise others perfectly valid choices are generally jealous. Those that are happy with their own choices don’t put down others or try and convince them they are making the wrong choice.

Dyslexic child 3 probably just needs to try harder. 🤔