AAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AnarchyAunt]

aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhsplutter

Ah thats better.

I know, I know, I can do nothing at all about it, its not my business, I don't have to look...... But aaaarrrrgghhh.

Am new on this site but am a member of bounty so have been reading all the recent debates on weaning. My little boy is now 18 weeks and at 15 weeks i was advised by both a doctor and hv to start early weaning. I agonised about this tried this for a couple of weeks but I felt it was making my little boy unhappy and unwell so have gone back to milk only. He is much happier now and I am really glad I listened to myself and didn't do what was advised. I just wanted to say i think it is great that you are making people aware of the risks of early weaning. I only hope i haven't done any damage to my little boy after giving him porridge for a few weeks- i'll never forgive myself if i have and will get up 50 times a night and feed him every hour if I have to do this to get to 6 months before I try again!
Sorry it's so long but i just wanted you to know that the you have got the information through to at least 1 person!

Hiya all! Will go back to stretchmarkqueen soon, but I feel this name is more appropriate at the moment They still at it then??

Welcome to all the new mums!!

VS, Ds is 21 weeks now, can't yet sit up, but I'm wondering whether I should start trying BLW at 24/5 weeks?? I'm really exicted about trying!! I know, tell me to wait!! Being excited is NOT a reason to wean!!

I think some of my posts have been deleted on bounty..again. I'm icarriedawatermelon, and I can't find the posts I made yesterday

Evening all! I'm following this topic with great interest on both sites - I've been a member of both since having ds1 nearly 3 years ago but for some reason (which I don't know myself!)I have never posted over here before this week, and always used bounty. Now I'm beginning to realise that I may have been in the wrong place all along - this place seems far more homely!! I think this may be my new place of suppost and advice and look forwrd to getting to know you all a little better (if my somewhat addled brain can keep up with who's who!. My spelling's not always 100% but I blame some of that on my somewhat aged keyboard!!

ok, I have never got on with mumsnet, the boards dont flow right for me - but I dont like the idea of "spying" on people, so thought I'd sign in and say hi.

I only recently really started using bounty - mainly I use ivillage. I've actually been in a few "discussions" there on both my boys home boards as I advocate 26w weaning.

DS1 is 26m now and weaned at 26w, starting on puree/mashed and then BLW from 8m. DS2 was weaned from 24w (27w adjusted) and is on mashed food and BLW combined. I admit to using jars in the evenings, but try and do some homecooked stuff.

Oh, and DS1 was FF, DS2 BF & FF. (He's still BF now at 30+w)

so hi. have been reading all the posts with interest. Not sure I agree with either sides approach to the discussions, but I havent been known to be the most diplomatic myself, especially over something I feel strongly about.

just thought i'd add my two pence worth... i am absolutly appauled that grown up women can be soooooooo vindictive and nasty... WTF?!

Lol! Hi! I'm glad that people are reading and interested.

TBH, for me, my main concern is that people have the correct information before weaning, not crap advice given by an out-of-date HV, or gp. It really is the parents own choice as to what they do, but as long as they know and understand the risks. When people say that the baby needs foods/HV says it's ok/baby too hungry etc..then it shows that they really don't understand, and have been given incorrect advice.

As much as the bounty forum members would love to think otherwise, people on here are concerned for other peoples' babies health. Esp on the 0-3 month boards. Could be confusing for a new mum to come on and see wrong information and think maybe her baby should be weaned early.

KingCharlie who is being vindictive? I have followed most of the threads and can only see nastiness from dummywhoever. Just because mumsnetters aren't all hugs and huns doesn't make us vindictive. Sigh et al is only trying to ensure that the correct advise is given, as so many on Bounty advocate early weaning.

Kingcharlie, Hi! Have you read the blog from further down the page?? Will try to link if you want?

We're not vindictive, honestly.

If you have a hv like mine then you wouldn't trust her advice at all - no matter how daft or unimformed you are!!

Lol!!!

Seriously, who is donna20x?? That was quite a harsh post on the upset tummy post. I wouldn't have thought someone off of MN would have put that. Esp. as she didn't put the age as well.

Oh, Hi to all you Bounty members who are now reading this thread thanks to someone who posted a link.

I had never touched the Bounty forum before this thread popped up on here and I think I will be leaving it well alone from now on! I've never seen such censoring of advice that "we don't like or agree with" before - it feels a bit like oppressive regimes such as communist China under Mao and Russia under Stalin!

There may be other points of value on Bounty but I for one won't be bothering to find them!

Keep up the good work, VS, SMQ et al.

jop, noticed you had a thread started?? I lost it..can you link, or bump it for me!!

charliesmum, that is really good to hear, thanks for posting.

I know I shouldn't - but I really, really want to say something about 'they're' meaning they are and 'there' meaning in that place in response to the 'god there off again' post.

I am an adult though and I will resist.

Been lurking here and cheering on those of you who have posted on the Bounty sites. Also excellent blog, VS - Anarchy's post about the history of the guidelines is a good contribution, too. I get very irritated when I read the myths of guidelines eg "they're for the third world', 'they change them all the time', 'my HV says they're impossible to follow', and 'but my baby is big/small/hungry/not very hungry and needed solids' and so on and on and on.

Just as with formula, the weaning and solids situation is a market and people stand to make money out of infant ill health. There will always be individual circumstances where weaning early can be needed for individual health reasons (just as individual babies may need formula, for individual health reasons). But of course these early weaners don't need to eat anything special or pre-packed or branded - not that Bounty want people to be aware of this

I just find it incredible to see not only the total ignorance out there, but the complete resistance to the idea that there are real reasons behind these guidelines. Health professioals have sooooo much to answer for here as well - if they understood the guidelines (not hard in itself as we al seem to manage!) then they would not say it was 'fine' to wean stupidly early

BTW te bit about the history of the guidelines is actually VS's - mine is the bit about Bounty encouraging weaning too early etc. I am going to contact my local hospitals wrt what I have been finding out and ask how they reconcile the presence of Bounty packs and reps with their Baby Freindly status.

I have to admit, the argument that guidelines "keep changing" really annoys me - I was born in 82 and the guidelines were over 4 months then (I was weaned at 18w)

I checked where I work (which is in a health centre with HV/NN) and they said it has been 4months + since the 70s at least, and 6 months for the last 3-5 years.

For the record, both times (DS1 now 26m and DS2 now 7m) i have been encouraged to wait weaning until 26w. DS1 was a "hungry" boy on 9oz of hungry milk and reflux to boot, and we managed to wait until 6m (could have waited longer, but admit I was too excited!)

DS2 was a whole different ball game - he has some weird thing with milk (BF this time) and even though was born 10lb2, only gained less than 3lb up to 16w. He wasnt thriving, didnt have wet or dirty nappies and it was very worrying. We introduced a couple of oz of formula and he still didnt gain much, but the nappies were wet and dirty again. Then at 24w (he was around 3w late) we introduced food. His weight has skyrocketed - he still hates any form of milk, but adores his food thankfully. No HV or NN advised me to wean at 16w - they said formula was safer (I cant express) and now I use solid, BF and formula :-) The internet boards I used at the time went on about nipple confusion and how at 16w I should wean instead of formula - I am glad I didnt listen.

Oh, and grammar is my bugbear too, the whole they're/their and there. I slip up sometimes, but I do try and type in the English I was taught ;-)

Maybe the fact that the change from 4 to 6 months was relatively recent gives some less well-informed people the impression that the boundaries are mutable (not saying that that's OK, just musing...)

Re. the Baby Friendly stuff - maybe you need to get in touch with UNICEF and see what they say. They might be able to put pressure on the NHS or Bounty.

The Weaning guidelines thingy was mine, the wonderful Bounty article was AA's, but glad you approve tiktok.

Welcome to all the newcomers, glad something good is coming out of this farce.
As an aside, I went to Boots yesterday to get my 6+months bounty bag. Just thought I'd take a look.

Inside there was a jar of apple and pear hipp organic puree. (Alex may use it as apple sauce on his pork roast )
There was some Hipp organic 'mineral water with a splash of apple' some HiPP organic 'banana and peach breakfast' and some cow and gate 'baby balance pure baby rice - ideal for first weaning' (it says on the front 'just right for alex' I'm assuming they don't mean my DS)

Every one of these items says from four months, except for the banana and peach breakfast which has no age on it. Just says 'suitable from the first stage of weaning'

They have telephone lines on too, saying to call their helpline to find out more. So tomorrow, I am going to ring all the different baby food helplines and see what advice I get. I will ring each one three times to see how they vary. I'm very interested in what they have to say and what training they have. I wonder how many will say that some babies need food before 6 months? There is a leaflet from HiPP saying 'For most babies breastmilk or infant milk provides all the nourishment needed up to the age of 6months, but if you think your baby needs nourishment before this time ask your Health Professional for advice'.

'If you think your baby...' the only babies that need solid foods before six months are babies with some form of dairy intolerance or other illness, not generally well babies. FGS.

Also was talking to DP earlier who is a great example of the mind of the general public (he believes I know best as this is my 'thing' as it were so is happy to follow my lead but doesn't really know a ton about it himself). DP said (when talking about Bounty) 'I thought they were the good guys, the MW gives you a bag from them and you get one in hospital, why do they do that? It means mothers who aren't particularly clued up and have no reason to question it will take the samples as 'advice' and recommendations from Bounty, who seem to be almost medical'.

So our thoughts on them certainly weren't just us being cynical. Strange how similar their tactics are to Nestle really isn't it? Nestle send people into hospitals in the third world with their samples, they provide midwives and nurses and the like with sponsored items, such as pens and wall charts, all to get into the mind of the consumer as the products 'recommended by professionals', aren't Bounty doing the same? Why are they getting away with this?

You can start a government petition here. I don't have time right now but it'd be worth doing. If you get more than 200 signatures they have to take it seriously and every petition should get a personal response.

Oh also, was discussing why babies were being weaned from 4 months before 2001/3 and the only answer I could come up with was that it was due to the introduction of formula and the pressure put on women to be supermum.
People's expectations changed dramatically after the second world war. Women started to go to work, they no longer had the 'time' to establish breastfeeding, and they didn't need to because the formula companies were there to back them up, as breastfeeding became less, early weaning became more commonplace and over the last 50ish years has become almost second nature. Our mothers may say 'oh I weaned you at 2 weeks' but would their mothers? and what about their grandmothers?
It's a relatively new thing this weaning early, but sadly, the HV/GP's etc are of the generation where it was seen as a new fangled thing, almost an advance in science, when really it was a step backward.

maybe thats why I am so open to the whole breastfeeding and later weaning - I was BF'd in the 80s (only child on the ward at the time) until i was 15m, and weaned at 18w. My sister was even BF when my mum was knocked out for 24hrs post general section - they told her it wouldnt work now she'd had 24hrs of formula, and my mum rubbished them and successfully breastfed for nearly a year!

Guidelines change on everything, like smoking and car seats and cot death - why are mums so open to change on those guidelines and not the weaning ones? It often feels like a competition to get baby to eat food as fast as possible (and dont even get me started on people like my in laws who think its hilarious to give my DS1 who was only 6m old at the time guiness and chocolate - and wonder why I wont let them look after him??!!!)

Even when the guidelines were 4 months some HVs routinely advised weaning earlier - 20 years ago when bf DS was 10 weeks he suddenly started to drop off the 50th centile he'd been on since birth - first thing the HV said (and literally the first thing, as I was lifting him off the scales!)was 'give him formula' I really didn't want to, but thought I'd better try, but he completely refused it (I admit I didn't try very hard to get him to take it)
When I told the HV she said, well, give him some solids then - he was 11 weeks!
I didn't do it, but I worried myself sick about him & was counting the days till he was 4 months.

By then he was on about the 35th centile -ironically, as soon as I started him on soilds he started to drop even further & was on the 3rd centile by 6 months.

Then, of course the HV started on about growth hormones.....

Two years later DD did exactly the same thing at the same time and I got the same advice from a different HV - luckily by that time I'd realised that DS though small was the healthiest baby around & had the confidence to totally ignore her.

sorry stretchmarkqueen- I went to bed!