How is it we've come so far removed from instinctive feeding of babies?

[Bumperrlicious]

I did blw so am probably a little bit biased but I saw my sis this weekend. My nephew is nearly 9 months and feed soley on jars, with occasional finger food.

I started extolling the virtues (imo) of blw, and was telling her how dd1 ate just what we were having for evening meals. She seemed really surprised. I was reeling off ideas for her and even after I kept saying he could eat anything (within reason) she said things like 'oh, is he allowed to have cheese?'.

Is it that baby food companies have made it so ingrained that babies need 'baby' food? Even dh was at it. When I tried to give dd1 an organix biscuit at 7 months when the box said 9mo+ he wasnt happy about her having it. I pointed out that the night before she had eaten tuna and noodles which many people wouldn't give before 9 months, what did he think would happen?

Incidentally the day I saw my sister she gave he ds pasta for the first time which he had great fun with! I did warn her not to suddenly just stop the jars as he was used to 3 meals a day & will take him a while to learn to feed himself normal food.

Interesting point. DD is 6 months and we've just started weaning. So far she's had mashed up fruit and veg, yoghurt as well as finger foods such as toast and cucumber sticks. She also feeds herself from her spoon and obviously picks up the toast etc. I don't think we're doing BLW, just giving her 'real' food.

When we told the GPs that we were starting weaning, they all said stuff like "Oh, does that mean she can have rusks now?", "Oh, you can get all those baby jars", etc and when we said she loved toast there were big looks of shock and "won't she choke???". Err no, she's 6 months old and she can eat pretty much anything. I think they think I'm a new fangled hippy mum or something because we're giving her 'real' food and I said "No" to rusks because they're sugary biscuits.

I don't get those age recommendations on some packets either - someone gave us a pack of baby pasta (in a baby shower basket) and it has 12 months on it. Why?

'I don't get those age recommendations on some packets either - someone gave us a pack of baby pasta (in a baby shower basket) and it has 12 months on it. Why?'

Because if you believe that babies can have normal pasta you will be spending 70p a bag. But if you think that babies need 'baby' pasta then you will be paying something stupid for a box and in the meantime will be forking out for the baby jars assuming that is all they are allowed.

Because 'it takes a village to raise a child' and we no longer live in that village. We now live in tiny nuclear families. Most of us have no experience of any of life's milestones or processes - childbirth, breastfeeding, weaning, etc etc all the way through to death and mourning. How many of those had you observed as you grew up, or had any experience of before you had to deal with them yourself?

Our great grandmothers would have grown up with these things going on around them, and the virtual community of MN would have been their actual community in RL: women travelling through the phases of life in companionship, shared support and shared wisdom.

But lacking all of this we look for someone to advise us. When we don't know any better (which is most of th time) we take that advice as a fixed rule. And are therefore vulnerable to whoever or whatever chooses to give us 'advice'.

When I weaned DD1 6 years ago the advice was very prescriptive with lists of foods to include/exclude depending on baby's age. So you would look up the rules on when to include dairy, or if you were really brave, nuts.

Is standard advice still that prescriptive?

what PrettyCandles said

My sister had her DS's 24 years ago, and jars (well it was only heinz tins then) were a convenience thing only. she and all her friends with babies made them real food, and both of my DNs were on finger foods by six months (age of weaning was a wee bit earlier back then though)

I also think lots of it comes down to time and energy these days; lots of mums are starting back at work now when their baby is around the six months mark, and buy ready prepared foods as it's easier/quicker/less time demanding. And the trend for baby ready meals reflects the huge growth in adult ready meals that has happened in the last 20 years in this country.

And not forgetting the power of advertising!

normantebbit advice is now wait until 6 months, and then if you do, you can give them anything apart from added sugar, salt, honey and whole nuts. For families with no known allergies, particularly food allergies, peanuts (like peanut butter) can be introduced from 6 months, although as with all foods that commonly cause allergies they recommed introducing one at a time just in case there is a reaction so you know what caused it.

crispycakehead I've never been a fan of ready meals for adults - they taste horrid, the servings are tiny and always need a big pile of veg on the side and they are horrendously expensive. Cooking a lovely meal from scratch can be just as easy and even quicker sometimes - pasta takes 10 minutes start to finish, even with some nice homemade veg sauce stirred in! I know that people are busy, but I do think we need to be priortising our time (spending less time watching telly etc) to cook nice healthy food for us and our familes instead of popping something in the microwave or going to KFC like the nice families in the ads - it's so easy to cook up a big batch of something, dish out what you need and freeze the rest for another night, for when you can't be bothered have less time. And yes, I'm saying this while still on maternity leave, let's see if my opinion changes when I'm back at work

I admit I had a bit of a moment the other day about giving ds something labelled as 12 months+ (can't remember what it was) - ridiculous really as I was letting him attack a full roast dinner before he was 6 months old

Twice this week I have had to leave a room because I could not stay and see what the mother was doing: virtually force-feeding a 7mo, who clearly was not interested. In one case the little boy was rubbing his eyes with tiredness and crying bitterly, and the mother was going OTT with singing and trains going into a tunnel etc. In the other the little girl was trying to pick up her big brother's food, and was closing her mouth and turning her head away from the spoonful of purée. I couldn't believe that she didn't get upset when her mum forced the spoon into her mouth!

In both cases the baby was a dc2 - you would have thought the mums would have developed a sense of perspective, an understanding of what their baby needs. But, no, in both cases the mums were insistent that the babies must eat right at that time and that spoonful of purée. A nap first would be wrong because then her day would be out of order. Finger food would be wrong because the baby would not get enough calories.

No flexibility, no try-it-and-see, no allowing mother or child to develop their own instincts. But slavishly following someone else's advice as hard and fast rules.

I see what you mean Prettycandles but to be fair there may have been time pressures etc that you were unaware of.

I often had to ensure DD3 got a meal before her afternoon nap in between picking up DD2 from nursery 11.30am and picking up DD1 from school 3.10pm. There were times when I had a howling DD3 in the school playground who had been too tired to eat lunch after nursery pick up and couldn't yet feed herself in the buggy.

Sometimes some food from a jar, quickly and then into pushchair for a nap is the best you can do.

I know. I have also been in that position with my dc3. But I also know that it was not the case these times.

Things I've heard these mums say:

"I don't take advice from other mothers, I make sure to consult experts."

and

"It's best to choose one childcare manual and stick to it."

Really makes me . I so appreciate and value the help I have had from other mums, both in RL and on here.

Yes people can often be so dogmatic they ignore common sense.

I like your talking pretty candles! We should all use our own instincts more (prehaps we have become so out of touch with our own feelings we need to rely on books and written advice). Books are great when we're completely stuck and don't know where to start. Even then common sense and instinct should prevail. "Guidance/rules" etc always change. Common sense doesn't! The best advice I have been given has been from aunts, my mum when she was alive, older ladies who've "been there" and listening to my own baby. She might not be able to talk yet, but she says a whole lot - you just gotta tech yourself to talk her language. Good topic Bumpa!

Just a quick word about age suitability on food labels - the criteria for baby foods are very strict, but get more relaxed for older ages, especially with regards to salt and sugar. Which obviously makes it different from homecooked food.

I don't even get why there's a thing called 'baby led weaning' - um, it's just giving them food innit. :o

I actually think the term is, well not harmful really, but it makes it seem 'hippy' and therefore can put people off. If that makes any sense. It separates it even further from 'the norm'

(YANBU!)

I think it is called BLW just because it needed a name. It is easier to say "baby led weaning" than "just give them actual food at six months or as soon as they can get it to their mouths themselves" each time it is mentioned.

But that's just it, Babybouncer: what makes a packet of Organix rice cakes any different from a packet of Kallo ricecakes? And if a baby can have babyrice from 4m (or whatever it is now), why can't they have ricecakes?

Apart from reducing salt and artificial food additives, the ingredients in babyfood are not essentially different from those in adult food.

I'm not against commercial babyfood, it's definitely useful, but I think that it is just another example of guidelines becoming rules.

As for BLW, in 'conventional' weaning the adult decides what the child will eat, how, and when. When being not just what o'clock, but what age. In BLW weaning the baby has a lot more say in all of these, particularly how much they eat and at what age. That's why it is called 'baby-led'.

But with BLW the adult still decides what the child will eat, how and when. The adult still decides what food to put in front of the baby and at what time of day - the baby doesn't walk to the fridge and help themselves to whatever they like! Sorry, I'm not trying to be facetious, but do you see what I mean? As FreudianSlippery said - "it's just giving them food, innit?"

feding has never been instinctive, always learned behaviour. it varies from social group to social group....

and i have at times jammed food into a baby, knowing if i didn't ..it would start yelling with hunger 20 mins later. Usually when i'd gone out.

most babies end up ok whatever you do. its just parents (well, mothers mostly) that get stressed and judgy about it.

I agree with all of this. They need introducing to food. SO introduce them and let them get on with it! My mother spends her whole time worrying about him choking and hovering, when he is quite happy witting there with his cheese sandwich.

Anyway, the thing I find odd is the babyfood jars are so sloppy. Even the stage 3 ones are mush with very little solid. I would go mad if I couldn't get my teeth round something crunchy.

with my first ds i didnt have a clue about anything so i read up and it said not to give salt and alot of foods have 'hidden' salts etc and not to give gluten til 6 months,nomeat til 6 months,no cows milk til 6 months. Then i read that dont wean too early as they might not be able to digest it, dont give apple chunks as they might choke. No honey, nuts etc. As a new mum i was unsure what 'normal' food was ok as everything had salt in so often used jars as i didnt have to worry and we could enjoy weaning. This time i'm alot more relaxed and know that if we have something like spag bol and use dolmio that ds2 (wenold enough) will b able to have some as the amount of salt in his portion will be very very little etc.

"The adult still decides what food to put in front of the baby and at what time of day." and then more-or-less lets the baby get on with it. The baby eats as much or as little as they want. They don't have an adult scooping it in, prechewed, until the bowl is empty.

I'm thankful that my ds2 was my third dc, as, had he been my first I would have been frantic: he was utterly uninterested in solids until over 8m. But, having already weaned two completely different dc at different ages and in different ways (thanks to changing guidelines!) I could tell that he was OK and did not worry. I offered him finger foods for a few months, and when he took them and asked for more I knew he was ready to wean. At which time he got a mixture of BLW and purees, because, yes, when there's a schoolrun to get done you don't have the luxury of letting your dc pace themselves. But, ultimately, I did not decide when ds2 was ready to wean, he showed me when he was ready.

I agree with op
its crazy to think we need to give babies something other than what we eat

I bought into it for dd1, she is a useless eater

she is now nearly 11 and awful

dd2 is awful too, I had not learnt my lesson, she is 5 and I'm embarrassed by her eating

dd3(gecko) eats whatever
she will try anything
absolutely anything

she is 4 yrs old and she was weaned at 6 months by stealing a lump of brocolli off my plate and then she just grabbed everthing she could.

she's not keen on bread, sweets and cauliflower

DS2 is 6 months and we're doing BLW, or as another poster said just giving him food. He seems to be loving it, I've got no idea how much he's actually ingesting but he's still having plenty of milk from me so not an issue. DS1 (3) is still pretty fussy but is actually trying new things as he sees his brother enjoying them. My mil was a bit [shock} but she's also really impressed by how much DS2 enjoys mealtimes. It's easier cos he's my 2nd I think.

I so agree. I'm doing BLW / just giving her food. Its so far from instinctive to whiz something up 'so the baby can eat it '. If they can't cope with eating it they must not be ready for it. What is the point of baby rice? I just don't get it.

I have just got back from town where me, my mum and DS (6 months) had lunch in a cafe. There was a group of trendy-mummy types in the corner next to us. One was spoon feeding a jar of baby food to a (I'd guess about) 10 month old lad who was crying and refusing to eat. She then gave up and started eating her sandwich. Her little boy kept on trying to reach for her sandwich and she kept pushing him away saying "no you wouldn't eat your own food". I am really biased as love BLW but why not share your food with your child