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Vegan

Join Mumsnet's vegan community and discuss everything related to the vegan diet.

Veganuary??

57 replies

Wimpeyspread · 01/01/2020 17:23

This is not intended to be a goody question, simply trying to understand. Articles in the news saying Veganuary will save thousands of farm animals - what do people think will happen to these animals?

OP posts:
Pinkyyy · 04/01/2020 12:03

@AppleJane I have actually. And every interview I watch on the matter seems to be a meat eater talking rationally and a vegan shouting nonsense. Surely the vegan topic is for people to discuss veganism?

Even if he does it in a gentle way, he's still bothering people in the street to try and then them vegan. I don't want to have to constantly have people trying to 'convert' me, every time I go into town.

AppleJane · 04/01/2020 12:05

@noblegiraffe have you got a statistical source for that?

AppleJane · 04/01/2020 12:09

@Pinkyyy

Do you think there will ever come a time when we stop seeing ourselves as conquers of the world and instead caretakers of the planet?

Every interview I've seen it has been the defensive meat eater (and I say that as someone who used to be exactly that) doing the shouting. I guess it depends on which video titles we choose to click on eh.

We are worried that in the future there won't be a town for your future grandchildren to visit.

Pinkyyy · 04/01/2020 12:12

@AppleJane eating meat isn't killing the planet. Humans have been carnivores for thousands of years.

mousemousse · 04/01/2020 12:15

Veganuary is a nightmare for those with allergies. Suddenly none of the food I use to feed the family is all out of stock, and the more popular it gets, the more.soya replacements are introduced, which my family are allergic to.

noblegiraffe · 04/01/2020 12:15

Applejane
Veganuary lack of impact on meat sales:
www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/veganuary-fails-to-impact-meat-fish-and-poultry-sales/

Re Greggs - massive profit increase driven by publicity around the vegan sausage roll - not the sales of vegan sausage rolls. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47480247

kjhkj · 04/01/2020 12:17

@AppleJane eating meat isn't killing the planet. Humans have been carnivores for thousands of years.

Well Im not vegan and still know that is a ridiculous comment. Meat production (more specifically beef and lamb) is one of the biggest contributors to the environmental problems we are currently facing. It isn't sustainable for us to continue with our current diets.

Pinkyyy · 04/01/2020 12:21

Meat production (more specifically beef and lamb) is one of the biggest contributors to the environmental problems

So we need to change the way we produce meat. Not cut it out altogether. Although all those avocados are benefiting out planet beautifully, aren't they.

AppleJane · 04/01/2020 13:18

@Pinkyyy how about watching 'Cowspiracy' on Netflix then pop back to the Vegan board to let us know if you stand by your statement?

Also check out Godwin's law (the fact that sooner or later someone will mention Hitler in an argument) Avocados are the equivalent to Hitler in a vegan debate.

@noblegiraffe quoting a study funded by animal agriculture? Check out 'What the Health' on Netflix to see just how far people will go to fund studies to benefit their own cause.

Pinkyyy · 04/01/2020 13:22

@AppleJane you can't just like avocados to Hitler and write them off as irrelevant.

AppleJane · 04/01/2020 15:32

@Pinkyyy it was a joke about Godwin's law for those forum users who have been around since the start of the internet. It essentially means that once you've mentioned Hitler (or avocados) you've lost the argument.

I'm quite happy to explain to you why I think avocados are a red herring but you have cherry picked your way through the thread only answering the questions you want to.

To be honest, I've been waiting for you to ask me where I get my protein and mention B12 so I can shout FULL HOUSE bingo style!!

Ready to answer those questions yet?

If an animal doesn't want to die can it's death ever be considered humane?

Do you think there will ever come a time when we stop seeing ourselves as conquers of the world and instead caretakers of the planet?

Disco91 · 04/01/2020 17:52

If you are considering becoming Vegan for environmental reasons I would recommend taking some time to study the the facts about agriculture (specifically British agriculture and grass fed rearing systems). Netflix, BBC and Channel 4 are pretty bias and they base a lot of facts on American feedlots.

British lamb and beef production plays an important part in storing carbon (ie Carbon sink), protecting biodiversity and utilising marginal land that cannot be used for arable crops but can grow very good grass. The crops that are fed to animals are only fed to animals because it's not a good enough grade to go into the human food chain (there are different grades of wheat, barley and oats depending on quality). If we all moved to vegan diets, the British agricultural sector cannot fill the demand for food and more and more food will be imported from abroad, increasing not decreasing our collective carbon footprint.

I understand why people feel uncomfortable about the slaughter of animals, I feel that is a much more valid reason to become a vegan than because of supposed effects of British agriculture on the environment. However another point I'd like to make is the welfare standards of British animals is far superior to the rest of the world and Europe. The EU have imposed many regulations in recent years and sadly only the British farms have applied them in many cases ( for example in pig production). To think of them living miserable lives as they wander round munching grass is pretty laughable, they are living in their natural environment and being cared for every day of their lives.

Finally many British farmers operate at a financial loss, for example, in the UK one third of sheep farmers are losing money, another third are breaking even and only the rest are making a profit. I don't know what your thoughts are of our farmers but with such grim financial situations surely they must be doing it out of passion and love for the industry, not to line their pockets.

Disco91 · 04/01/2020 18:03

Also if your vegan what are your thoughts on alcohol production? As fields of wheat and barley are being grown to go into alcohol production......?

If I was vegan for environmental reasons surely this would need to be considered also?

Baaaahhhhh · 04/01/2020 18:20

quoting a study funded by animal agriculture? Check out 'What the Health' on Netflix to see just how far people will go to fund studies to benefit their own cause

AppleJane Sadly the same can be said by every documentary which has been produced to highlight issues with the meat and dairy industry. They are funded by "interested" parties too and are edited to show the industry in a particularly unfavourable light.

I am hoping to see something unbiased and which reflects the actual reality in the UK.

Baaaahhhhh · 04/01/2020 18:22

If an animal doesn't want to die can it's death ever be considered humane

How do you know, that it knows, that it doesn't want to die?

Pinkyyy · 04/01/2020 22:18

@AppleJane

If an animal doesn't want to die can it's death ever be considered humane?
What a stupid question. How on earth would you know that an animal 'doesnt want to die'? Regardless of that, it was bred with that purpose do it would have never been alive.

Do you think there will ever come a time when we stop seeing ourselves as conquers of the world and instead caretakers of the planet?
Who decided that's what we see ourselves as? Was it you? That's also a pointless question because it's based on how you see the world, personally.

AppleJane · 05/01/2020 11:57

How do you know, that it knows, that it doesn't want to die?

Until someone can prove to me that an animal does want to die to become my dinner then I would rather err on the side of caution and not eat it.

My pets don’t talk to me in human language either but most pet owners can figure out their pets ‘wants’.

It was bred with that purpose

By a conqueror. Yes, that’s my opinion. Isn’t that what forums are for? I wouldn’t expect my opinions to be very popular on the farming forums but as we’re in the Vegan section…..

noblegiraffe · 05/01/2020 12:02

How did you prove to your satisfaction that a carrot wanted to die before you ate it?

cricketmum84 · 05/01/2020 12:09

Can you imagine if someone went on to the pregnancy forum for example and started questioning everyone on why they were increasing our population problem?? Asking them to explain their reasons for getting pregnant.

Same here. It's a vegan forum. Can we not go anywhere without all the meat eaters having a go??

GetawayfromthatWelshtart · 05/01/2020 12:26

Lighthearted random fact - some plants give off toxic chemicals when they are being eaten by other animals to make them more toxic or try and kill those eating them. They also release chemicals that alert other plants in the area that they are being attacked.

Tomatoes actually release a chemical to make caterpillars eat each other instead of the plant.

I have foreseen the future. Its not a zombie apocalypse I need to be afraid of. It's an invasion of vegans eating each other due to the plant toxins!!! runs and hides Grin

GetawayfromthatWelshtart · 05/01/2020 12:28

Sorry if I offended anyone with that post, just wanted to inject a bit of laughter... Smile

I'm nowafraid to grow my tomatoes this spring in case they turn me into a cannibal!

cricketmum84 · 05/01/2020 12:37

I'll be honest with you @GetawayfromthatWelshtart I'm only 5 days into veganuary and I'm so hungry I could probably eat another vegan. God knows how I'm so much hungrier than I was as a vegetarian. I'm blaming the cheese withdrawals.

noblegiraffe · 05/01/2020 12:38

applejane appeared to be up for a discussion. I was just wondering if meat-eaters are seen as thinking of themselves as conquerors of the animal kingdom why the same does not apply to the plant kingdom. Basically we all have to eat living things to survive but draw the line in different places. I’m not sure that drawing the line in a different place to another person makes one a conqueror and the other not.

AppleJane · 05/01/2020 13:02

@noblegiraffe I was up for a sensible discussion. But to be honest when someone calls someone else's words 'stupid' and 'pointless' that pretty much puts an end to any decent debate.

I could ramble on for hours about your carrot. About nervous systems and pain receptors. About evolution and human conscientiousness and our responsibilities in the modern world. But it would probably be pointless.

@cricketmum84 well done 5 days in!! Excellent example with regards to the pregnancy forum point Smile

And the cheese withdrawal does get easier. Without going and looking it up I'm pretty sure I read that cows milk is addictive (to encourage the calf to keep re-visiting it's mother's breast) so you're not imagining it!

noblegiraffe · 05/01/2020 13:15

someone else's words 'stupid' and 'pointless' that pretty much puts an end to any decent debate.

That wasn’t me.

But it would probably be pointless.

Why? I’m interested in your view of meat-eaters as conquerors but plant-eaters as caretakers when both are living things. It appears you draw the line at nervous systems and pain receptors - is it not about identifying with animals and not with plants?

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