How do you think people would react to this?

[QueenOfIce]

Having a conversation with a vegan and we wondered If a butchers counter was set up with animals (that had died naturally) dead cats, dogs rabbits etc all skinned labelled like they do in butchers. Would people get the resemblance between those classed as pets and those in fields bred especially for food?

The meats we eat are all a result of conditioning, and aren't necessarily linked to an animal's status as a pet. I wouldn't eat a rat, for instance, although I have never kept one as a pet - however, in some countries, rat meat is a delicacy. I have been brought up to see some animals/birds as edible, and others as inedible - it would take more than a display in a butcher's shop to undo that deep-seated reaction.

I think your OP is unbelievably patronising. Thewhale has called you out and now you're making out you were just "musing". Bollocks (cats or dogs your choice).

I grew up farming. We had orphan lambs that were butchered eventually. We hand reacted them. They had names. They were pets. (They loved to play football with us) But they were meat too. It was their purpose in life, to go into our bellies.

Butchered cats and dogs corpses would be sad to see but as I wouldn't be buying them from the butcher it wouldn't be much different to seeing tripe or black pudding there. I wouldn't buy those either (not envy)

As a meat eater I know my meat comes from once living, breathing animals. As do my three children. They've known all their lives.

Spartacunt
Obviously someone has realised that the majority of the population wouldn't take kindly to patronising twats experimenting on them.

QueenOfIce
Since you have chosen to ignore everyone including myself after your patronising "musing". I decided to have a look through the treads to see exactly what you ment by me having "issues", I'm not sure how you would think an attack on me and me retaliating "issues" or should I be like you, as soon as someone doesn't agree with something I say and questions me on it, I shut my mouth?

My DF said cat tastes like rabbit. He knew.
I have eaten horse - a traditional dish among miners.
Recently I tried different kinds of insects.
I am omnivore and - coming from a long line of really poor people - am prepared to eat what is there to eat (like very much the a vast number of people in the rest of the world). I am all for treating animals I want to eat the best way possible. But eat them I will - in moderation like everything else - and kill them myself if neccesary.

Lots of people eat the animals they keep as pets. Lots of people raise a pig for their own consumption, similarly a turkey to fatten for Christmas.

I just wanted to add a comment here to show some support for the op. I think that there is a debate to be had about why we choose some animals as pets and why we condemn other animals to slaughterhouses.

I think that a lot of people on this thread assumed that vegans believe that meat eaters do not know that meat comes from once living animals. This is not the case but often people do not think about the realities of factory farms and slaughterhouses when they walk into supermarkets.

We can choose to widen our circle of compassion to other species that are also capable of feeling pain and suffering, is that really such a bad thing?

@Duchy most soybeans (70-90%) are fed to animals so that environmentally devastating impact of the production is not on the vegans!

@apatrick123 it is interesting as we all do have the same morality. It is objective. Vegans are not on a moral high horse as their morality is no different. Morality comes from empathy, intelligence and logic. We can all empathise for animals or we wouldn’t keep pets and most people wouldn’t say they love animals. We can link with intelligence that it’s wrong to harm animals. And we can use logic to understand why if it’s wrong to harm a dog it must be wrong to harm a pig.

The objective moral position of 90%+ of the population is that it’s wrong to unnecessarily harm animals.

Where we differ is on whether killing animals is harmful and if so whether it is necessary.

Further most animals end up suffering abuse (beyond the abuse of being killed) as a result of factory farming yet most animals the U.K. population eats come from factory farms. Abuse like removing teeth and testicles and tails without anaesthetic, tiny cramped spaces their whole lives, their babies taken from them, chicks shredded up or gassed at 1 day old. This is all standard practice. Most meat comes from these conditions yet everyone you meet say they only eat free range organic grass fed small family farm etc which statistically doesn’t add up.

I get where your coming from, humans are so detached from it all.

People will go crazy if they see animal cruelty, someone kicking a dog, abandoned kittens in a bin bag, or capturing an orca and in prisoning it at sea world. We all show so much compassion in situations like this. But when it comes to our food, why are we are happy to eat the flesh of other animals like pigs cows and sheep. What about those animals that had to suffer and die?

How many people would carry on eating meat if they had to kill the animals themselves?

Just because I wouldn't eat my pets doesn't mean I don't know where meat comes from. I am well aware and my kids know as well.

@strawberrypenguin Your kids know where meat comes from but would you show them the process of it getting to their plate? A cute baby lamb being dragged away from its mother, it being slaughtered and then cut up into pieces for it then to be packaged and sent to the supermarket for you to buy...

We would never want our children to see that because they would be horrified and probably cry their eyes out.

They only eat meat because you tell them too, but if you put a child in a room with an apple and a lamb, it would eat the apple and pet the lamb.

The child would never try to eat the lamb.

Your kids know that newborn baby male chicks are shredded alive or gassed so we can have eggs? (Because they are useless to egg industry).

@ell22 you are so right, a lion sees a piglet and sees food, a child sees a piglet and sees cute.

Patronising.

Well no elle but then I wouldn't try to eat a live lamb either. What a stupid thing to say. Put them in a room with a steak and and apple and they'd eat both.
Humans are natural omnivores.

@strawberrypenguin but if you put a bear (an omnivore) in a room with a live lamb it would see food and have no problem killing it and eating it. Most humans would have a problem doing that. So it’s not really a stupid thing to say, it’s an interesting point and we should consider why that is.

@strawberrypenguin and I’m not telling you to stop eating meat eggs and dairy but just to think about it some more and whether you are really ok with day old chicks being ground up alive or gassed (standard egg industry practices) etc. If you are, fair enough, if you’re not, then it’s about deciding what if anything you want to do about it. Most people just don’t think about it.

What upsets me is that when some of us see these practices as wrong and decide not to participate in them we get abuse, I don’t think that is fair, just because we don’t want to harm animals doesn’t mean we’re fair game to be picked on, especially in our own vegan forum. I’ve been personally attacked on a thread like this and it wasn’t nice. I think it’s helpful for all parties to remain civil. Being polite costs nothing.

I also get where you’re coming from.

I’d say though, if you’re a lacto vegetarian, that equally, a vegan could say “how would you feel of you opened the fridge in the supermarket to grab your bottle of milk or pack of halloumi and you heard the screams of baby calves as they are taken from their mothers and sometimes euthanised, practically at birth”?

To your vegan friend, if he eats Oreos, jus rol, soy etc, how would he feel if he went to his favourite “vegan friendly” convenience food and he saw footage of deforestation in Borneo and the effects of that on some very intelligent animals (orangutans)? Even if he’s a super ethical vegan and only eats locally grown fruit and veg with low carbon footprint, how about the effects of arable farming on the environment and wildlife, even in the uk?

That said, I think there are people who might change their thinking if they saw your proposed stall. It wouldn’t turn the world veggie, but it might stimulate a bit of a debate, which is no bad thing.

@RhubarbRhubarbRhubarbRhubarb you’re right we can always do better. Vegan is just a first step. Re arable farming yes there are problems but most arable farming is actually done to feed animals so by eating vegan you’re still causing less harm on that front than non-vegans

Oh and the day old calves aren’t euthanised. Euthanasia is mercy killing. They are slaughtered as a by product.

Surely if anything it would make the difference more pronounced? The smell of a half rotten cat isn't pleasant.

Most people know where it comes from, but are content with that. They just don't make the mental connection from animal to food, otherwise they might gag.

In plenty of countries it's not unusual to see skinned animals in butchers or hanging in butchers stalls. Either cultural or necessity of food. I try not to look or be near it (I eat a vegan diet so I'm not being a hypocrite by avoiding, it just makes me nauseous!), but others are accustomed.

As someone said, it's a privilege to get to be fussy about food.

I'm vegan, just found it better for me and the way I feel all round, I eat so much and feel better. Meat repulses me now, but it took my body reacting well to a vegan diet to do that.

Each to their own. If anyone asks why I eat the way I do in a genuine way, I'll happily explain why and why it works for me. If someone is judgemental, I'm not playing. I don't preach so I don't want preached to. I'm very healthy thank you!

@kikisparks yep I totally agree, it's because we are truth and people don't like this. All we're doing is speaking for the animals because they can't speak for themselves and we get scrutinised and told we are patronising.

@strawberrypenguin
exactly my point, we only eat meat because it's been slaughtered for us.

We breastfeed our children, this milk is perfectly designed for them with all the right hormones and nutrients etc I wouldn't invite my friend over and make them a coffee with my breast milk...

So ask yourself why are we taking the breast milk from cows and putting it on our cereal etc

The dairy industry is brutal, 1 day old calves being taken away from they're mothers, imagine someone taking your 1 day old baby, for you then to be hooked up to a machine and milked dry so old Doris can have milk in her tea