Dual nationals travelling to the UK

[tinydynamine]

A heads up for my fellow UK-other nationality dual nationals:
From the end of February, dual nationals travelling to the UK must use their UK passport when entering the UK. Since Brexit I have been using my German passport only. This will no longer be possible. I could be denied boarding at the airport. My son has only ever had a German passport. Through me he automatically has British citizenship which means he now also needs a British passport to the UK.

So I would need to renew my uk passport because my Spanish passport say i was born in the UK, which automatically makes me British.
I practice someone who was born abroad to a British parent capable of passing on citizenship should enter on a uk passport but in practice, especially if they have never held a passport or has a long expired one , would probably get away with omitting info on the eta form and just travelling on the other nationality. Not saying they should but they could because they would be unlikely to be picked up.
But if you were born in the UK that could be spotted by uk immigration.

At the end of the day its to make BC easier.

Uk citizenship is not 100% birth right. You could have been born pre 85/86(? joined EU) in the UK to holidaying Spanish parents who could (I assume) pass on Spanish citizenship have a UK birth cert but they had no right live there so you did not get citizenship.

The BC could deport you very quickly if your Spanish PP showed you did not qualify / "overstayed" etc. and you would have no right to remain.

If you say you are British they have to hold you in the UK while they try to prove you are not a citizen (and the State bodies have an obligation to protect your assumed rights).

In your case if you can enter on your Spanish PP BC are only creating paperwork for themselves by having to prove you can not be prevented from staying. (I am sure if there is no legislation/case law on that that some Jobsworth on a powertrip would invent rules to deport you.)

Being born in UK does not make you British. One of your parents has to have been British at the time.

I’m Dutch and got British nationality because I’ve lived here so long (1977). Luckily because I’m married to a Brit I can keep my Dutch passport. Ordinarily I’d lose it as the Dutch don’t agree with people having more than one nationality. My kids now have both passports.
i travelled with my son to Germany in the summer and we went using our Dutch passports as we always use our British ones because we’d be in a different queue to my husband. Dutch passports always include the maiden name in bold letters and have a small mention of your married name. I always use my married name so I brought my British passport with me. My son didn’t.
i hadn’t realised ETA was a thing and suddenly started freaking out about getting my son back home. A friend who is a travel agent advised me to upload his British passport details on his return flight even though we didn’t physically have it with us. Luckily we were able to fly back with just his Dutch passport but from now on we are using both.

DH has settled status; he doesn't need an ETA when he's entering the UK.

DS and I are duals; I show my EU ID card when entering EU, and British passport when entering UK. Always travel with both.

Annoyingly, Eurostar doesn't seem to allow for duals when entering passport info. I often book two separate tickets.

Our DS was born in the UK, so has a British passport. We had to register his birth with DH' EU consulate in London. His country consider children born to one of their citizens an automatic citizen themselves, and expect them to have that passport or ID card when entering or leaving that country. We got massively held up at at passport control once when DS was little and his EU passport hadn't yet come through.

I have checked. As a naturalised Spaniard with a country that Spain doesn't have a dual nationality agreement i must enter and leave Spain on Spanish documents. Doing otherwise is "ilegal use of a nationality i have renounced" and can be a justification for removing my Spanish citizenship.
As a Spaniard I would need an eta to travel. The uk won't give me an eta because i have British nationality.
So how the fuck do i travel? If the eta asks about other nationalities I would have to lie. I can't travel in and out of Spain as a brit. But to enter the uk as a Spaniard I need an eta.

Fill in the UK paperwork and loose your citizenship and rights to a UK PP

Apparently you need to have a certificate of entitlement (to enter the UK) entered in your Spanish passport. That, or a uk passport. You are not eligible for an ETA; the CofE is designed for your case.

It doesn't solve the problem though, does it? How do I travel as a Spaniard without a ETA? Spain insists I travel on Spanish documents or risk losing Spanish nationality, how do i travel as a Spaniard without a ETA? Won't I be denied boarding?

Or is the idea that the c of e means you can show you don't need the eta at boarding? So basically all dual nationals have to Fork out €500 to visit their own country?

No the CoE gives the individual the right to pass BC which is all the airline care about. The airline will have a contact us (human) system if the online system is not set up to manage the exception.

Spain gave you a choice you give up your UK citizenship not just the trappings of it and get Spanish citizenship or keep your UK citizenship lose the right to be a Spanish citizen.

You are trying to game the system.

You made a deal with Spain.

You failed to hold up your end of the deal and are upset that Spain wont change the deal.🤣

I disagree. The British have no issue with dual nationality and need to support their own citizens. They should not be charging their own citizens more than non citizens to enter their own country. They should change the guidance to accept expired passports.
A Government always looks out for its own citizens. Why would anyone hand over citizens to another Government competing for them.

The UK has a PP which costs X and the CoE which costs Y. Its up to the individual to decide.

They also have a system to deal with citizens who (for what ever reason) dont have current PP.

One of the rights of democratic citizenship is the right to reject it

No, Spain asks me not to travel on other passports. It does not insist i give up my other citizenship formally.

You need to use a British passport to enter the UK. Then when you go back to Spain you use your Spanish passport.

The CofE is the equivalent of an ETA for British citizens who don’t want a British passport.

you don’t need an ETA at boarding because in your Spanish passport you have a certificate issued by the British government saying “the holder of this Spanish passport has the right to enter the UK”.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun
Because not all countries recognise it. As a Spaniard I am not allowed to hold other nationalities, there is no dual nationality, once i am Spanish i renounce other nationalities I am NOT allowed to be Spanish and maintain another passport. In practice people do because nobody check but it is not permitted and can result in your Spanish nationality being removed.

^ you explaining that Spain will not allow you to be a (recognised) citizen of the UK and be given Spanish citizenship.

You using a UK PP is proof that you are so chose to remain a UK citizen.

Whats hard about understanding that a PP is and always remain the property of the issuing State and only citizens are allowed "borrow" them as a tool to speed entry?

Aaaargh - have only just realized with this that my kids are automatically British. Doesn't matter that I never registered them at the British embassy or that they've never had a British passport or that they've never considered themselves British.

Looks like our trip in April to the UK is off as there is no way the passports will get sorted in time.

Or Irish. My son has dual Irish and British citizenship with Irish parents at birth in the UK.

Allowing citizens to use expired passports is incredibly bad practice and shouldn’t be accepted. It’s a security risk that should never be taken. If people want to travel asking for a current passport is hardly a big ask!

The State cant prevent entry once the individual is a citizen.

Thats why the UK want all undocumented citizens to request a pp document. The document proves that the citizenship verified and is the end point in an admin process.

The admin decision to mandate updated pp is just that a admin decision to take account of the ageing process v a picture which captures a point of time

@follygirl are you sure you can keep your dual nationality long term in the UK? My understanding of Dutch dual citizenship is that if you live outside the Netherlands for more than 10 years you can lose your Dutch/have to give one up. Maybe I'm mistaken and it only works the other way round (I'm a British citizen who lives in NL and became a naturalized Dutch citizen post-Brexit. Like you I can only have dual because I'm married to a Dutch, but if I move back to the UK or anywhere else for 10 years plus I would have to give up one nationality by Dutch rules).

I think that is only if you let your Dutch passport expire for 10 years.

@CuteOrangeElephant @follygirl I've done some more research and I'm wrong because it depends how you acquire your Dutch citizenship.

I was born British and acquired Dutch nationality as an adult, so for me if I live outside NL for more than 10 years as a dual national I would lose my Dutch nationality (unless I gave up my British first as I cannot be left stateless).

For my kids who were born British and Dutch, they cannot lose their dual nationality. There used to be a rule about losing your dual in this case if you let your Dutch passport expire but that is no longer the case I believe.

I'm not sure how this would apply to you @follygirl as you were born Dutch and acquired British citizenship. It's so complicated! There's a very handy group on Dutch Nationality with lots of very helpful people who can explain it more clearly to me than the IND website.