Is it always going to feel like DH vs DS?

[LittlePetitePsychopath]

I love them both a lot, obviously. DH is a good man, and a good father. But he wants to move to Spain. He has big regrets about not doing it before - initially because of his mum finding the idea heartbreaking, and then just because work didn't line up.

It vaguely does now. We have visas, we can go. We've done recce visits, and stayed for a few months a year for the last few years... But DS always wants to come home. He has friends here. He missed them, and then preschool.

We weren't financially in a position to go before this summer, and then work commitments stopped me. DS started school. We weren't sure how he'd feel about it, but he loves it. He's made lots of friends, he loves walking to school, he's even chosen to go to half-term club one day. He's learned so much. He does not want to leave. It's been a pain in the arse for my career - it usually requires some fun travel that we've always done together, and school can't authorise that these days - but I'm really proud and happy for him.

DH says that he doesn't like our town; he feels you have to drive everywhere, prices are going up, quality of life is going down, he misses the sun. He has SAD and a medical condition that are both better in the sun, and he generally feels a bit energised in it. It also gives him distance from his parents, who he seems incapable of maintaining boundaries with, and who have no idea of social norms. He has been honest that the distance is a selling point to him; alongside that he would feel like he'd achieved something in life.

DD doesn't really care, she's one, so she'd probably go with the flow.

But 4-year-old DS hates the idea of leaving his friends and his school and his community, and I really struggle with how I'll ever keep everyone happy...

I’m very much into giving kids their voice on things, but a 4 year old shouldn’t be having a vote in where the family live.

It’s very different going on holiday, even for months at a time, than him having a new life there. He’d have a new nursery, new friends etc.

4 is far too young to have a say.

Eek I thought you must mean an older child or teenager. Four years old is very, very young. They will have opinions that change day to day or week to week. At the moment you need to do what you judge as being best for your family.

How do you feel about it

I don't think your 4 year old has the life experience to make a sensible judgement. At 4 they have only just learnt to play with rather than alongside. He would make friends very easily.

More of a concern for me is that you don't really say anything about how you feel about the move and how it will impact you?

A four year old is not equipped to understand the full ramifications of a big move like this. He lives in the moment. He’ll soon adapt. If you and dh want to go then go. If you don’t want to go then tell your dh that and have an honest conversation rather than framing it around your vet young DS’ opinion.

My concern would be that if you and DH split up or the move doesn’t work for you, you wouldn’t be able to bring your kids back to UK without DH permission.

Have a good think about Hague convention before making a decision like this with very young DC.

He is 4. He’ll be fine.

What are your views?

Gosh he's only 4! It'll be harder when he's older, but he's still so young, if you're ever going to do it then now is the time.
Are you sure it's about your DS and not that it's you that actually doesn't want to go, and you're looking for a reason? If so then that is fair enough, you just need to be honest with yourself.
If not and you genuinely want to do it then do it now while he's only 4!

Move. Your son will find new friends and he'll find new cute walks to school and so on. Also, language-wise good to move if you are going to before he gets into more formal education.

Your son doesn't know what's best for the whole family and you shouldn't ask him to carry that, you make the decisions between you and your husband and then be clear with your son and help him adjust to living in a different country. It takes time even for children to adjust to moving schools or homes down the road, but you can't sit there for 18 years, just get on with it.

He’s FOUR, @LittlePetitePsychopath not 14. His opinion isn’t sufficiently fixed to be a useful criterion: his friends could move away themselves, as happened to my son at that age, when his BFF moved 20 miles away after his orients divorced. The mum wanted her children to make a new life in the new school so she cut off contact with the previous friends, and my DS had to just accept that.

They also fall out with friends, and just as importantly, make new friends very easily at that age. It gets more complicated as they get towards adolescence but four or five is fine. I’m amazed that you even say your DD will “probably” go with the flow - she’s one: what do you expect her to do?? She’ll barely notice at that age.

More to the point is - how do you feel about it? I wonder if you’re not worrying about how the children will adapt because you don’t really want to go. And that’s fair enough - your opinion matters as much as your O/H’s does.

You need to work out what you will get out of this move too, and what the possible downsides are. Your DH is probably seeing only the positives.

You don't ask a 4yo something like this. You tell them.
If you really think it is for the best, then sort it out, and sell it to DS as a big adventure.

I agree with everything already said. The opinions of a 4 year old are nil and void here I'm afraid! How does it work out for you ??

What about your future and career? You need to think about that and what happens if you need to come back without DH. You have no legal right to bring them back without permission.

He'll grow up bilingual OP amd have a happy, healthier dad. I think yabu not to at least give it a go, dc make friends easily at that age, be different if he was in exam years.

If he was 14 sure, but 4? No.

Oh my goodness, a four year old is ego centric and only thinks about themselves as they are very young children. They can’t possibly weigh up the pros and cons of a move for adults involving jobs. They don’t understand the life advantages such a move could give them (second language etc). I’m not sure how you could possibly take the views of a four year old into account.

This is an adult decision, you and your DH make this decision based on what is best for the family as a whole. Then if you decide to go, that’s when you sell it to the four year old by making it sound exciting.

Echoing the chorus. He is 4, he doesn't get a casting vote here. He shouldn't even be being asked. Adults decide and he gets told in an age appropriate manner. At 4, his friendships are barely started, easily moved on from. He is far too young to understand.

If it is you that doesn't want to move, be honest with yourself and your husband. Don't pin it on a very young child.

4yo doesn't get a say - it's way too much responsibility to put on him. You decide what's best for everyone as the adults, and then you help him adjust. He would make new friends out there. Possibly not all of his friends will go to the same school when he starts, so it will be a transition for him anyway. We moved to Germany when DS1 was in the summer between nursery and school. He is 18 now and doesn't even remember living in the UK any more. And (German nursery is longer) the only one of his nursery friends he is still in touch with is one who happened to go to his primary school, but he also would have lost touch with her if he hadn't coincidentally met her again through a mutual friend. Preschool friends are rarely lifelong, usually only in smaller communities or where the parents have a connection. We still see one of his UK friends (DC of my UK friend) about once every couple of years.

YOU do, though. How confident are you that you'd cope with life in Spain? You can end up running into some quite massive problems if you move abroad with DC and end up splitting up and want to come back. What about your own parents and when their health starts to fade? What about retirement and your career? What do you think of the school system for DC and opportunities for them once they leave school?

Also DH needs to understand that he can't run away from his problems. Reasons like preferring the climate, culture, location etc are fair, but distance from parents can make it tricky in other ways because you can't just visit them for half an hour, it has to be several days at a time, it can cause sibling resentment etc, you can end up spending all your holiday (budget and time) on trips back to the UK rather than getting to go anywhere to relax. SAD is one aspect of mental health but mental health problems can persist in sunny climes as well and if there is some kind of trauma/wound around his upbringing then it might be that at some point he needs to address that head on regardless of what country he is in. Sometimes people move abroad because they think they can outrun their problems like this and it can cause an even deeper dip when they realise it hasn't worked. I'm not saying he's definitely doing this, but it is worth him giving it some serious consideration.

I am vv happy living abroad, I think it is a genuinely better life we have and accept the compromises, but I also came on the understanding that if I was desparately unhappy, DH would move back. I have actually stayed much longer than I ever thought I would, and I have no idea if we would ever go back now.

Yep, same here. He's only 4. He will make new friends and create his new community (whatever that means when you are 4). I'm surprised that he has missed his friends a preschool for the last few years when you have gone there.

I love how you said your 1 year old will probably just go with the flow. I mean, she won't have a clue what's going on. She will not be able to tell you that she prefers to live in the UK.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like you don't actually want to move there and it's not actually a choice between what your DH and DS wants, it just sounds better.

At 4 he doesn’t get an opinion- 14 year old yes. If it is going to be better for your family then do it.

Move!

I was expecting a new DH and a teenager from a previous relationship right until you said preschool 🤣

4 year olds don't make decisions based on long term benefits, that's why parents make decisions for them. Are you using him to hide behind rather than telling DH you don't want to go?

You haven’t said what you want. You obviously want ds and dp to be happy but that’s not going to make a move abroad successful if you’re missing family and friends back in the UK. You need to be honest about what you want without using dp or ds as an excuse. Some people live living in a different country but others long to return and if you are the latter, you can’t legally return with the kids without dp’s permission or the kids turn 18.

I emigrated when my son was a similar age and I didn’t ask him how he felt. It was a done deal organised by the parents tbh. Kids can make friends wherever and if he likes things like walking rather than being in the car then you and your partner can incorporate that when considering where to live in Spain.

It's not your husband versus a 4yr old child!

It's a decision between two spouses, if it benefits you both.
Four year olds don't have opinions on international emigration

You let a child of THREE decide where you live?

Wtf?