PIP and driving

[Resben]

I’m currently filling in a change of circumstances form on behalf of my 23yr old daughter.
Do I need to tell them that she can now drive (with lots of support) and has a job.
I was told to report changes to her health. Her health has not improved or got worse. But reading online others have lost their PIP because it is assumed that they have certain abilities because they have the ability to drive. I want to be honest but I don’t want to give information that could be wrongly used against her. So do I tell them about the driving and job?

She can drive “with lots of support”…. What the hell does that mean??

I would tell them as that is a significant change but explain what difficulties she still has.

And yes you do have to bloomin tell them. Obviously

Does it not give a list of examples of things that constitute a change in circs?

but I’m more worried about there being a driver on the road who apparently needs lots of support in order to drive!!

Apparently

a change in circumstances is any shift in your personal, financial, or work situation that affects your benefit payments or legal obligations.

What do you mean by needs lots of support to drive? Surely she shouldn’t be driving if she can’t drive independently?

Exactly

She wouldn’t have passed if she needed “lots of support”

Being able to drive won’t lose her her PIP unless it contradicts other parts of her form.

my DD for example would lose her PIP if she could suddenly drive because it would contradict the rest of her form (she has narcolepsy with unpredictable and uncontrolled cataplexy).

However many many many people on PIP do drive and it’s acceptable - the motability scheme is proof of that.

Actually looking it up seems to say don't need to report either unless it affects support levels so if you said before needs to be accompanied out and she drives alone that needs reporting but with you doesn't.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/pip-changes-and-reviews/changes-that-affect-pip/

I am going to guess @Resben isnt going to come back

I'd not. Pip is awful and unkind. They simply don't care about people's real lives. Don't tell them imo , your daughter seemingly needs the support.

PIP is based on what your daughter cannot do. I’d review the activities and points and go through them with your daughter. If it varies you should go with how she is the majority of days.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/vms0u05139aw/pip_descriptors.pdf/93820be60dcc6420191292ed56e2c95f/pip_descriptors.pdf

I did speak to the citizens advice who said you don’t have to report either the job or driving. As she has a life long condition which will never get better and that driving or a having a job isn’t showing proof of improvement. She took years of lessons to learn to drive and several tests. It’s been a long process. She got so used to the roads it was less of a problem but she can’t drive anywhere new without us and lots of practice and preparation. It’s a slog. The driving she does do leaves her absolutely drained because of the level of focus she has to use. I know it’s difficult for people to understand how overwhelming and draining every day tasks can be for those who are neurodivergent. It’s difficult to see your child go through this when they are just trying to get on with life and be ‘normal’ . I’m very proud that she persevered and finally passed her test. She has a job and pays taxes. She struggles with a lot of every day things but we give extra help and support.

Why not?

But to be clear

Your daughter can drive a car independently without “lots of support”?. I mean, she did pass her test after all.

This doesn’t sound like a person who should be driving

As the mother of a quite newly qualified driver it terrifies me that people are out on the roads who ‘require lots of support’ and find it draining and overwhelming. What if she goes somewhere and finds the drive home too overwhelming. My DS was unable to drive for a short time due to a cardiac issue. Even though he was not told not to by his cardiologist he knew how serious driving is and if he didn’t feel 100% confident would never put other road users at risk.

What does needs lots of support to drive even mean. Im assuming an instructor didn't pass someone who can't drive independently.

Your daughter won't get PIP based on not being able to drive. So in isolation you won't need to tell them that. Presumably she gets PIP based on the way her disability limits her daily activities. What you might need to tell them is if the underlying reason why your daughter used not to be able to drive and now can has also meant that a lot of other limitations have been lifted.

Example 1

• Her daily life was highly limited by frequent seizures, she got PIP because she always needed to have someone with her in case of seizure.
• She hasn't had a seizure in two years and is allowed to drive again
• She no longer needs someone with her and so doesn't need PIP

Example 2

• She has PIP because she has very limited motor function
• She stopped driving because her motor function is limited and her car was not appropriate for her needs
• She has been taught to drive an adapted car and needs help to transfer in and out of that car, but is able to drive safely herself.
• PIP would still be relevant because she still needs a one-to-one carer to get her in and out of the car and go on trips with her.
• She could still get PIP for that care no matter whether she is driving or a carer is driving.

In fairness the DD passed her driving test all by herself and presumably doesn't go anywhere that she's not been before so knows the routes. Unless she's said that she's unable to plan (I think that's the descriptor) it shouldn't be an issue.

PIP is an in work benefit so that shouldn't be an issue as she'll have reasonable adjustments in place.

If CAB say you don't have to OP, then don't. The subject may come up if she needs to go through the renewal process but again it shouldn't affect the outcome.

You need to be honest, but being able to drive doesn’t prevent someone from being eligible for PIP, including enhanced mobility.

Even for the planning and following a journey activity, there is a fair bit of case law showing on its own being able to drive doesn’t mean you can’t score points. Too often, assessors latch on to driving and have tunnel vision, but the assessment should be holistic in nature and not focus solely on being able to drive.

Similarly, working doesn’t prevent DD being eligible for PIP and there is some case law about that, too.

OP clearly stated her daughter can drive familiar routes. I imagine that's all she does alone. She probably will have practised the exam route until she knew it well. If her driving was safe she can then pass.

As someone who suffers in a similar way I completely understand. I don't drive unfamiliar routes on my own. If by any slight chance I had to deviate from the familiar route I'd pull over - safely - and call a family member, my partner or a friend. This doesn't mean she's a danger to other drivers. It's sad that people on MN jump to conclusions when they don't know what they're talking about. If the post isn't relevant to you, maybe don't jump in with assumptions and accusations. Although obviously I've also made assumptions...

I think I’m just going to be clear and open about the situation. I will state all the help and support she needs/gets to be able to drive. I don’t want to be accused of covering it up or lying. It’s a very stressful time filling in PIP forms. I think you have to of actually completed one to understand. It’s very draining. Good job I know and understand my daughter so well.