PIP and driving

[Resben]

I’m currently filling in a change of circumstances form on behalf of my 23yr old daughter.
Do I need to tell them that she can now drive (with lots of support) and has a job.
I was told to report changes to her health. Her health has not improved or got worse. But reading online others have lost their PIP because it is assumed that they have certain abilities because they have the ability to drive. I want to be honest but I don’t want to give information that could be wrongly used against her. So do I tell them about the driving and job?

Yes you do need to report them. Being able to drive is a major change, getting a job is also significant. You cannot need to drive with support, you can either drive or not!

Can drive with lots of support is just not correct!
”she has independently passed her test” is accurate!
lots of people hate driving somewhere new but that not needing lots of support 🙄

I think a lot of the posters are the kind of people that believe if you can drive or have a job you aren't disabled and think support means physically putting her in an car and helping her drive..

OP I understand what you are saying, she needs the mental support and likely struggles with the after affects on her and how that impacts her diability for example having to ignore certain pains or issues at work to be seen as coping and capable and that likely is exhausting and causes more physical symptoms.

id be honest and explain exactly how much support and work it takes to get her to maintain a job and to drive.

You can get cars that are adapted for disabilities or so I believe and also work can make reasonable adjustments.

please ignore the ignorant posters.

Thankyou for being kind and understanding.
I’m aware that not everyone has experience of the behind the scenes struggles that neurodivergent people go through so I try not to judge those that make rude comments.

I will judge them for you lol. I think if you don't understand something you just don't comment on it.

Everyone is disability aware when it comes to their professional roles or parenting or trying to be a pleasant member of society but give them an anonymous website and they seem to forget themselves.

Mumsnet is the wrong place to ask about this, OP. There’s such a lot of ableism on here. MN hates ND people, hates people claiming PIP, and hates anyone who finds driving difficult.

My job was PIP tribunals. Most posters here know nothing about the law or eligibility.

You don’t need to report either of those changes. They are not changes in her health conditions. However, if you are completing a review, rather than a change of circumstances, you will likely be asked about these things during assessment.

Answer honestly, making sure you outline the support your dd needs to do these things.

The mobility criteria includes ‘needs support to navigate the route of a familiar / unfamiliar journey’. This includes managing things such as diversions, delays and unexpected changes. It also encompasses needing someone with her, or on the end of the phone. It includes needing support on the end of the phone. If she has needed help with these things or been unable to complete journeys etc detail this too. If she can’t manage driving on a daily basis say this too. If planning the route takes her longer or requires support, this also matters.

Work - also detail the support needed. Does she have Access to Work support or adjustments in place, etc?

She doesn’t sound safe on the road if she needs support. What type of support? She sounds dangerous

What??? Who is this other person in the car or at the end of the phone??

Quite!

A family member or friend. Or a paid carer.

There are disabled people who aren’t able to go out alone, you know.

So what does this other person do? Direct them, give them driving directions?

Bloody hell there’s a lot of people on here who need a few lessons in living with a disability 🙄. Op you’re doing fine, and have had some good advice ✊

I'm amazed you thought you'd get much empathy and support from here. a large majority of people on MN truly believe that you can get PIP by popping your name and 'I'm sad' on a form, and definitely know others who definitely lie about their conditions and definitely don't need it, so obviously your daughter is a scrounger. Those of us who either have to claim it, or spend days with people in serious pain helping them fill it out, know slightly more.

I’m going to take this as a serious question.

Can be many things. Some people might feel too anxious to leave the house alone. Some people might need the other person to navigate. Some might need them to take over if it’s busy, if they encounter a diversion etc.

I have had clients who are at times unable to continue driving and have needed someone to come and let them follow them, or retrieve their car for them. I have had others who have needed to be talked through a new route when they have encountered a diversion. I have met people who are safe to drive on local roads but unable to process new ones, and need to be accompanied many times on a route in order to learn it. I remember once client who was a Unniversity lecturer, whose partner drove them to work for months after they moved house (within the same town) until they learnt the route.

Driving is not one of the descriptors for PIP so no need to report.

It comes under A11 (planning and folllwing the route of a journey). It is routinely asked about at assessment, but there is no need to report it as a change of circumstances

I’m in 2 minds now about reporting driving. The CAB said no need to report and I myself can’t see anything official saying I have to report it. I’m just worried if it is discovered I could somehow get in trouble. There was a phone assessment after the last review. I’m scared I will mention it somehow and it will snowball from there so maybe I should get in there first. It’s difficult explaining everything in detail, especially when put on the spot on a phone call. I’d be much better writing it down.

My advice OP is never ask any questions about disability benefits on MN because all you will get is people looking to call you (or in this case your daughter) a scrounger.

Try the Benefits and Work website. They have a forum which will give useful support and information.

All you will get here is insults.

I think the key question her is "Is she now able to drive" actually meaning she needs less support or is it another thing she can do with the same support she has always had?

Example 1
She used not to be able to take the bus independently, and now she can and she can drive, but not quite independently because it's more effort and mental processing than taking the bus.
In this example her overall processing ability has increased allowing her to travel independently by bus if she wants to, and to drive with support when that's more convenient. This should be reported, not simply because she can drive, but because the driving is possible because of an increase in overall ability to organise, plan etc, which significantly decreases her overall need for support.

Example 2
If she has never been able to take the bus independently because of her inability to organise routes, read maps, find bus stops etc, and still can't. She has learnt driving a car, but again can't organise routes, maps, finding places etc.
In this example her overall processing ability has not increased. She has learnt a specific set of mechanics to drive, but she still cannot process all the other things like routes and maps well. She would potentially freak out if a road was closed and not be able to work out where to go instead. She would therefore continue to need mobility support for not being able to travel independently, even if she was the one driving the car.

Support can include things like helping with route learning, going out with the claimant to rehearse the route and practice that confusing roundabout, exploring the "what ifs" and possible diversions, being on hand for a panicked phone call from a coop car park because 15 minutes in near stationary traffic with white van man virtually parked on her back seat proved too much.

Are people who need that much support for minor changes whilst driving actually safe on the road? What happens if there is an accident ahead of them on a motorway and police have to direct them off on a different junction. Do they just stop driving and hold everyone else up? A support person wouldn’t just be able to go and help them

You're brave for asking that question here. The main thing will be around the getting around questions and if her forms say she need support all the time or if it's some of the time.

What strategies does she have in place if she gets overwhelmed while driving? It's usually pulling government when it's safe to do.so and working through the overwhelm. The more experience she gets the less she'll struggle, she's obviously competent enough to pass the test. Planning journeys at quieter times is a good workaround. Keeps in a check on diversions before leaving help as well as you're not thrown into the chaos.

For anyone saying she shouldn't be driving aftee what I saw on Wednesday in Manchester there are far more drivers who dagouldnt be on the road. I must have seen at least 40 different people breaking road rules.

Autistic drivers tend to stick to the rules and those with Adhd often thrive on the multitasking one they get used to balance.

All new drivers show nerves anyway, it's the overconfident, law doesn't apply to me drivers that are the worse.

I understand,had my son’s friend who took a very long time to learn to drive and he prefers to have someone with him unless he’s going to his volunteer place,which he knows very well.Hes perfectly capable but very anxious of breaking down etc

I can’t think of any clients I’ve had mentioned above who would have driven on a motorway. All were safe to drive on familiar routes and able to get to a lay-by or car park to call someone if overwhelmed. None would just have stopped in the middle of the road. That would indeed mean they were unsafe to drive.

There are also people who are able to drive a familiar route but couldn’t do so repeatedly or reliably, or on the majority of days. For PIP purposes, if they can manage it less than 50% of the time, it counts as being unable to manage the task. So the person who can manage a weekly drive to the local supermarket is not able to manage to drive on the majority of days.

OP, I agree with the ister who said that mumsnet is completely the wrong place to get advice on this.