Rubbish holiday guest

[Purtyburty]

I would like some perspective on a holiday I had in France a couple of weeks ago. DH and I are really upset and disappointed with how this holiday went down and I am struggling moving forward with some family relationships. A family group spent a week in a holiday home and my brother’s family were a part of it. He has two children. An 8 year old girl and 4 year old boy. We have a 5 year old DS and a 2 year old DD. From the first day the 4 year old boy targeted my DD. We bought a her a couple of new toys for the holiday including pool toys. Everything she touched or held was immediately snatched from her. She would cry about this but we asked politely to give it back. It’s too hard to explain the whole week so I will just list the behaviour that happened - he hit her several times a day, spat at her, spat in her food, pulled faces at her, pressed his forehead against hers while pulling faces several times a day, he would give her toys then quickly snatch them away, run off with them and then dangle them in front of her and say she can’t have them, threw all her toys in the pool, held her nostrils together tightly and I had to pull his fingers off her nose, push to sit next to her at every meal and shout in her face constantly as she was eating, take her food off her and throw it on the floor etc etc etc. One time he took her toy off her and just licked it constantly in front of her while she cried and just kept smiling and licking it which i just thought was plain weird. We were increasingly frustrated as her parents and I mentioned it to my brother a couple of times and he would laugh about as though oh boys are a lot. My brother and his wife never reprimanded any behaviour of this at all and kept saying it’s because he wants to play and he is only four so he doesn’t understand. But to be honest I felt like she was bullied for a week. By day 3 she would scream in any communal area and wouldn’t go around the pool or anywhere he was so we spent a lot of time indoors on our own or in our room separated. DH still took our eldest in the pool and spent time with him so that his holiday wasn’t ruined so that’s what he was doing most of the time, whilst also trying to help with us. I ended up snapping a couple of times because it all got so overwhelming when we were trying to have a lunch together and after that they told him to stop doing some of the things he was doing but he never listened to them and they never took it further and would just walk away. I wish this was all an exaggeration but it wasn’t - and I supppse i am wondering if this is sometimes normal 4 year old behaviour despite the lack of parenting. I just still feel very upset about how aful the holiday was and very sorry for my child who had to endure it. My brother has sent a few messages since the holiday and I am just finding it really hard to move forward with the relationship. What does anyone think? AiBU?

Bloody hell I hit you are being unreasonable by mistake scrolling though. You are NOT being unreasonable!

You know this isn’t normal behaviour and it’s most likely due to poor parenting

but The question is what do you do now?

have you discussed it with your parents?

Reading that I'd feel really worried something is happening to that child that he is copying and acting out with your daughter. Very frightening indeed.

Absolutely not normal behaviour in any way for a 4yo. Even if he was just at the very extreme end, it was on his parents to basically shadow him and manage it not brush it off. Your poor dd. I wouldn’t know how to move forward from this either.

I would cool the relationship. He's only going to become worse and they arnt going to do anything about it. I have the same age gap and sex - honestly he is alot more of a handful in a different way. Mostly my youngest is an obnoxious twat and that's taking into account ND. Especially to his sister. But he has been parented strongly and he's coming through it. With kids like this - parent them how you would your own child and if your brother objects you just say ' if he behaves like that as he gets older no one will want to be his friend. '
I feel for you. It sounds hard but children who are twats grow up to be twats and no one likes them. It's not 'being harsh' it's true.

It's not normal he was targeting her because she was smaller and more vulnerable. He's a bully and his mum and dad should have been ashamed of him. I would tell your brother the truth, that you are upset about what happened on holiday. He may well say oh he didn't mean it, or some other nonsense. Then you just say that's not what happened. You are quite right not to go to their house or on trips etc with them. He's a child and they need to take responsibility for and deal with his behaviour.

Ghastly behaviour. They will have big problems.

We already know you just said “that’s not kind” and didn’t protect your daughter in any way shape or form.

Your poor daughter. You didn’t do anything enough to protect her.

No, it's not normal. Has he behaved like this towards her before?

That child needs an absolute bollocking and I don’t apologise for sounding like a parent from 1954.

Wtf? How did you get that from what the op said??

Seriously what are you talking about 😂

Your brother and his wife are seriously lacking. Big time.

24 hours of that and my nephew would have had a massive telling off from me, what a little git. His parents though, they're to blame. Vile, pathetic and damn lazy.

If the parents wouldn’t do anything I would have. I’d have told the kid and them that if they didn’t control their son then I would have told do it further them. Disgusting behaviour and they are raising an obnoxious child - once he starts school there will be trouble. Even little kids hate a trouble maker.

What an awful holiday! You poor things.

i think we all agree this is not normal, but it’s hard to know if it’s “not normal” as in your nephew has some extra behaviour stuff going on, or if is a culmination of your nephew being a kid who needs more attention and really firm boundaries & his parents seem to be providing neither. I’m also not sure what else you can do since your brother seems unwilling to parent his kid. Sad situation all round

I have 2 boys, one of whom is neurodivergent and they would NEVER behave this way. It would not be tolerated by any of us.
I would be so upset if this happened OP. What a shit holiday for you all! Meanwhile your lazy brother and his wife get to sit there and do zero parenting.
I realise it’s hard to do but we would have left and told everyone why after being ignored the first few times. I’d let your parents know how upset you are and that you won’t be able to attend events if your nephew isn’t made to act better.
There is zero excuse for a 4yr old behaving that was and it’s really worrying. Not from a ND perspective because I do not know any children with special needs that behave that abhorrent, but from a neglect/abuse standpoint. My kids wouldn’t even consider spitting in someone’s food, licking their stuff or tormenting a very young child!

Of course you know it isn't normal. You have two children yourself.

Terrible parenting, but why did you let it happen?! Were you trying to teach your children that they should allow bullies to treat them however they like and their only option is to take themselves away from the fun or try ineffective kind words?

He’s 4 and it took you until day 3 to separate them at meal times - you tell him no, you move him and his chair. He’s licking your child’s toy, you forcibly take it from him and say that it’s not his and that it’s not nice or allowed to do that to other people’s things. You tell him off firmly for hurting your child (not “use kind hands” - take him away and sternly tell him that it is not nice and you will not allow him to hurt your child).

If his parents have an issue with it, explain you will not allow anyone else to upset your child even if it is just “typical boys being a lot” and you want your daughter to learn she doesn’t have to put up with boys behaviour if it upsets her and that that’s an important life lesson to you. If they don’t like it, you’re not the unreasonable one.

My nieces bullied my son. Not even nearly to this extreme. We don't see them anymore.

You need to be better at standing up for your children. I will tell any child off. Idgaf who they belong to, how old they are, if they're even being dicks to me or my child.

And a 4yo doesn't know better? What a load of shit.

This is a really insightful comment thank you. I suppose I have been wondering about how concerning it actually is. That he appeared to enjoy it so much.

Stop trying to be controversial. There's one on every thread and it's getting tedious.

I just had a similar family holiday. When my brother’s kids played up I disciplined them and vice versa. Why did you not step in and tell the child off? Why did you not give him consequences for his behaviour ‘if you hit Sally again, we will not do X with you later’? IMO it is every adults’ responsibility to teach the children good discipline and if you go on that kind of family holiday absolutely necessary to trust all the adults to be in loco parentis mode.

I would be falling out with my brother if he had not sorted it out. Well at least they will have the teenager from hell to contend with.

I’m with @SmashThePatriarchy on this.

You should have bollocked him and his parents. Your poor daughter with wet lettuce parents that let his happen, repeatedly

My niece is like this. Her parents practice ‘gentle’ parenting. Which works on her gentle sister. But it doesn’t work on her because she is not a gentle child.

She hit, pinches, pulls hair, takes things, snatches, destroys games, breaks things. She’s 5. My kids are 10 and 12 and they hate her. I feel sorry for her siblings who are bullied relentlessly by her.
I’ve told my kids to hit her back but they won’t because they know she’s younger.

Shes enabled by my sister and my mother who turn on anyone who complains about her for ‘telling tales’ or they are told to just ignore her. Like oh you know what she’s like.

We don’t see them often, my kids want to see her siblings but they’d be quite happy to never see her again.
I suspect before long we won’t see them at all anymore