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School toilets

548 replies

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 12:05

School toilets!
Son text me to say he had walked out of lesson after being refused permission to go to the toilet, he had finished all his work. I have always told him to do this if he is desperate but he never actually has before.
He has been put in isolation.
I'm angry as I really believe that students should be allowed to go when they need to and he had completed all tasks so was just say in the classroom anyway.
What does everyone else think?

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AWeeCupOfTeaAndAnIndividualFruitTrifle · Yesterday 19:03

Perpetualscroller · Yesterday 18:57

This is not as black and white as this. I’m a secondary teacher and it’s not just some, but most pupils who abuse their right to go to the toilet. Most who ask out to the toilet do so at inappropriate times. Most pupils who ask out to the toilet have been out of every other lesson that day. Most pupils who ask out to the toilet are doing so to vape/meet up with pals/use their phones/bully others. The reasonable, sensible pupils tend to manage to go before or between classes. There are occasions when that isn’t the case, but the problem with that is that, as a teacher, I have to come up with a reason that I let your son out and not the 5 that I don’t believe that I said no to in the previous 15 minutes. I can’t say to them cause you’re lying and he’s not.

There has to be a blanket rule, or teachers are put in an impossible position. It’s not a far stretch to understand the school must have an issue with the toilets if they have someone permanently posted outside to monitor behaviour.

The reasonable, sensible pupils tend to manage to go before or between classes.

I understand that it's a huge challenge - the same as any facility where there is widespread abuse; but having a stomach upset, or an unpredictable period, or anything else that can befall the best of us is not a sign that a a person is not reasonable or sensible.

We already have attendance awards that are designed to reward children who are lucky enough not to have disabilities, health conditions or other illnesses - and thus punish/denigrate those who aren't.

tsmainsqueeze · Yesterday 19:03

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 18:36

UPDATE

So after speaking to the school and my son, my son asked to go to the toilet 3 times, politely and not interrupting anything the teacher was doing, she said no each time, the last time he said to her "I'm sorry miss but I have to go" and left the room, because he was in pain by this point, they are also not allowed to use the toilets in-between lessons so this wasn't an option. He went back to the lesson and got his things and was told to go to isolation for "making a poor choice". The head of year came to see him in isolation and lectured him on attendance and rules. He then told my son that it was possibly a suspension, and that apparently "80% of students that get suspended end up in prison" (I have not idea why he would even say that!
He then said he would advocate to the head teacher that he shouldn't be suspended, also asked him why I had ring up (at this point no one had got back to me, and they didn't until I went into the school to chase up) he then sent him back to his lessons.

What an absolute farce , i actually feel embarrassed for them.
Your son did nothing wrong and i hope he understands how over the top the whole thing has become.
I would like them to explain to me what they thought he should have done in his position .
I think schools would possibly have more respectful students if they showed a bit more respect back.
It is not fair that the bad kids behaviour affects the majority who would use the toilet facilities correctly.

ForUmberFinch · Yesterday 19:04

Perpetualscroller · Yesterday 18:57

This is not as black and white as this. I’m a secondary teacher and it’s not just some, but most pupils who abuse their right to go to the toilet. Most who ask out to the toilet do so at inappropriate times. Most pupils who ask out to the toilet have been out of every other lesson that day. Most pupils who ask out to the toilet are doing so to vape/meet up with pals/use their phones/bully others. The reasonable, sensible pupils tend to manage to go before or between classes. There are occasions when that isn’t the case, but the problem with that is that, as a teacher, I have to come up with a reason that I let your son out and not the 5 that I don’t believe that I said no to in the previous 15 minutes. I can’t say to them cause you’re lying and he’s not.

There has to be a blanket rule, or teachers are put in an impossible position. It’s not a far stretch to understand the school must have an issue with the toilets if they have someone permanently posted outside to monitor behaviour.

I absolutely agree with you. And I go a step further. I DO confront the trouble makers. I have said “no” to pupils because they’ve ripped sinks off walls, kicked in other classroom doors and used toilet breaks as an excuse to rampage. And I’ve been blunt about why. And I do let the good kids out. Again explaining clearly and briefly why. I’m yet to have a parent complain.

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:05

ghostofchristmaspasta · Yesterday 19:02

I don’t expect students to ask to go to the toilet, they can just get up quietly and go to the bathroom.

Other staff members went on and on about it for a while but they seem to have learned that my philosophy of trust and responsibility actually works. It’s very rare for anyone to abuse the ‘privilege’.

I also let students eat in class if they are hungry, ask questions without raising their hand etc. I don’t introduce unnecessary rules, I just expect the young people to conduct themselves properly and they do.

I completely agree with you here OP.

Thankyou, it's great to have this point of view from a teacher. I'm of the view especially with teenagers that you will absolutely get the best out of them of they are happy and comfortable in class, not that we should fuss over them but a relaxed setting has to be better than the alternative. Just the respect you are showing them will definitely make a difference. My son actually has great relationships with his teachers and wants to be a teacher mainly because he wants to have those positive relationships with students that he has himself.

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Mistymaglets · Yesterday 19:07

ghostofchristmaspasta · Yesterday 19:02

I don’t expect students to ask to go to the toilet, they can just get up quietly and go to the bathroom.

Other staff members went on and on about it for a while but they seem to have learned that my philosophy of trust and responsibility actually works. It’s very rare for anyone to abuse the ‘privilege’.

I also let students eat in class if they are hungry, ask questions without raising their hand etc. I don’t introduce unnecessary rules, I just expect the young people to conduct themselves properly and they do.

I completely agree with you here OP.

Your students wander in and out and eat whenever they want to in class time??

As the kids say...This is not the flex you think it is.

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:07

Mistymaglets · Yesterday 19:03

He'll do whatever he wants because his disregarded for the rules and authority is being encouraged by his mother.

No he will do as he is supposed to in school, but if he needs the toilet he won't wet himself 👍🏼

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Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:09

tsmainsqueeze · Yesterday 19:03

What an absolute farce , i actually feel embarrassed for them.
Your son did nothing wrong and i hope he understands how over the top the whole thing has become.
I would like them to explain to me what they thought he should have done in his position .
I think schools would possibly have more respectful students if they showed a bit more respect back.
It is not fair that the bad kids behaviour affects the majority who would use the toilet facilities correctly.

Yes I've explained that he was respectful and tried not to cause any disruption but advocated for himself. Told him he won't end up in prison for going to the toilet also 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

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AWeeCupOfTeaAndAnIndividualFruitTrifle · Yesterday 19:09

I really cannot believe that any of the posters on here saying "manage your time better" who were unfortunate enough to have a bad stomach, UTI, messy period or similar would just sit back and accept it if their boss forbade them to go to the toilet - maybe for 2 hours, in spite of their asking and repeatedly pleading.

Possibly you would be in a level-headed frame of mind to visibly soil your chair, carpet, clothes in front of others and stand up to your boss and tell them matter-of-factly that it was the natural consequence of their management choices, and ask how they want to resolve it going forward; but I think most people would feel horrendously ashamed and humiliated and never want to set foot back in there again.

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:11

Mistymaglets · Yesterday 19:07

Your students wander in and out and eat whenever they want to in class time??

As the kids say...This is not the flex you think it is.

The point this teacher is making is that if they need to go, they can go, they don't make a fuss about it, they go and come back to carry on with lessons. It actually is a flex. I'm sure if her classes were trouble or she wasn't getting the results then it would be an issue but it doesn't sound like they have those problems. Schools need bringing up to date, not much has changed since my parents were at school!

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Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:13

I also think people are forgetting that In a job you aren't going to get ridiculed or laughed at for such things, unfortunately kids can be cruel, so the less fuss made about it in a classroom full of your peers, the better.

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AWeeCupOfTeaAndAnIndividualFruitTrifle · Yesterday 19:19

ForUmberFinch · Yesterday 19:04

I absolutely agree with you. And I go a step further. I DO confront the trouble makers. I have said “no” to pupils because they’ve ripped sinks off walls, kicked in other classroom doors and used toilet breaks as an excuse to rampage. And I’ve been blunt about why. And I do let the good kids out. Again explaining clearly and briefly why. I’m yet to have a parent complain.

On my DS's last day at his previous school, a group of children decided to go and vandalise the toilets and leave graffiti around - I can only assume they were too stupid and/or selfish to realise that, just because they were now leaving, younger children would still be attending and the school would continue on.

They had a really special, poignant leavers' assembly planned, which meant a great deal to the properly-behaved children and will be a lasting fond memory.

The vandals, by contrast, were kept in a different room and missed the special assembly, whilst their parents and the police were called in. There would have followed a hefty bill for the parents and I doubt any of them didn't deeply regret their shockingly poor choices for a very long time.

Schools should be like society in general: treat people well and with respect and assume the best, but as soon as individuals show that they are not willing to act accordingly and return that respect, come down on them hard and make them suffer - not everybody else. I'd also give them a strong reminder of the story of the boy who cried wolf and get them to think long and hard about the practical implications in their own lives and privileges which they may be allowed/denied.

Mistymaglets · Yesterday 19:19

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:13

I also think people are forgetting that In a job you aren't going to get ridiculed or laughed at for such things, unfortunately kids can be cruel, so the less fuss made about it in a classroom full of your peers, the better.

And I think maybe a lot of people forget that the teachers are the ones day in day out in a classroom full of students, and we know exactly how what ACTUALLY HAPPENED in class is not what is usually related back to complaining parents.

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:22

Mistymaglets · Yesterday 19:19

And I think maybe a lot of people forget that the teachers are the ones day in day out in a classroom full of students, and we know exactly how what ACTUALLY HAPPENED in class is not what is usually related back to complaining parents.

Any time my son has told me anything about school, he's told me the truth because he knows that if I find out different (which I'm this case I obviously will when they contact me) he will be in trouble..and he's also got great relationships with his teachers, never had issues.

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TheAmberStork · Yesterday 19:26

I work with young people in an environment where they can leave at any time but I have introduced a toilet ban with many. They're allowed to nip out at the very start but after that that's it. At the end of the day they're teenagers and I'm sorry but they take the piss. It does them no favours allowing them to eat and wander around.. it doesn't prepare them for the workplace and certainly most weekend jobs available for teenagers would not allow it. I'm sorry I don't believe the previous poster who allowed food works is a state secondary and I'd be interested to know what subject!

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · Yesterday 19:26

Children are constantly told that school is “preparing them for the workforce,” as if that’s some profound educational philosophy rather than a tired slogan wheeled out to justify anything. But here’s the plot twist, the actual work place has rights!

Under the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, employers must provide clean, accessible, well‑lit toilets. They cannot tell employees to “hold it until break.” That would be a health and safety breach — potentially even discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. Adults get toilets. Adults get dignity. Adults get legal protection.

But children? Apparently children live in a parallel universe where basic human biology is treated like a moral weakness.

In schools, needing the toilet magically transforms into a “behaviour issue.” Being human becomes “disruptive.” And denying kids access to a toilet , something that would get any employer HR fearful of being sued, is repackaged as “building resilience.”

And the punchline? Teachers themselves are protected. If a teacher needs the toilet, they ask for cover. No punishment. No lecture. No “wait until break.” Because adults are allowed to be human. Adults are allowed to have bodily functions. Adults are allowed dignity.

Children, meanwhile, are expected to sit in discomfort so the school can maintain the illusion of control — even when that control directly contradicts the very safeguarding principles the Department for Education claims to uphold.

We’ve normalised a system where children are subjected to treatment that would be illegal, unethical, and professionally catastrophic in any workplace. But slap a school badge on it, and suddenly it’s “for their own good.”

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:30

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · Yesterday 19:26

Children are constantly told that school is “preparing them for the workforce,” as if that’s some profound educational philosophy rather than a tired slogan wheeled out to justify anything. But here’s the plot twist, the actual work place has rights!

Under the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, employers must provide clean, accessible, well‑lit toilets. They cannot tell employees to “hold it until break.” That would be a health and safety breach — potentially even discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. Adults get toilets. Adults get dignity. Adults get legal protection.

But children? Apparently children live in a parallel universe where basic human biology is treated like a moral weakness.

In schools, needing the toilet magically transforms into a “behaviour issue.” Being human becomes “disruptive.” And denying kids access to a toilet , something that would get any employer HR fearful of being sued, is repackaged as “building resilience.”

And the punchline? Teachers themselves are protected. If a teacher needs the toilet, they ask for cover. No punishment. No lecture. No “wait until break.” Because adults are allowed to be human. Adults are allowed to have bodily functions. Adults are allowed dignity.

Children, meanwhile, are expected to sit in discomfort so the school can maintain the illusion of control — even when that control directly contradicts the very safeguarding principles the Department for Education claims to uphold.

We’ve normalised a system where children are subjected to treatment that would be illegal, unethical, and professionally catastrophic in any workplace. But slap a school badge on it, and suddenly it’s “for their own good.”

Agree with you 100%
I have huge respect for teachers and I understand alot of the issues aren't problems they would choose, it's the schools who make the policies but there is a way to speak to people and alot of teachers would be sacked of they spoke to a colleague the way they speak to some kids!

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LikeASoulWithoutAMind · Yesterday 19:30

I work in a school. We do allow students out of lessons to the toilet if they have a medical condition or are desperate but we try to minimise it wherever possible.

Some of the reasons are:

  • it's incredibly disruptive to the learning, not just for the child who goes to the toilet but the other 29 who are distracted by the coming and going
  • it's contagious - you let one go and suddenly they all need to. Disruption then multiplied by several orders of magnitude.
  • many students walk incredibly slowly to and from the toilet. They miss far more than their parents might imagine
  • they arrange to meet their mates in the toilet to vape
  • a lot of toilet vandalism happens during lesson time, which is very expensive and already massively stretched school budgets can ill afford this. It also often means you then have to lock the toilets until the damage is sorted, so then they might be out of action for everyone else at break time

Hope that helps. Most of these toilet trips are totally avoidable by students remembering to go before/between lessons.

Sunshineclouds11 · Yesterday 19:30

TheAmberStork · Yesterday 19:26

I work with young people in an environment where they can leave at any time but I have introduced a toilet ban with many. They're allowed to nip out at the very start but after that that's it. At the end of the day they're teenagers and I'm sorry but they take the piss. It does them no favours allowing them to eat and wander around.. it doesn't prepare them for the workplace and certainly most weekend jobs available for teenagers would not allow it. I'm sorry I don't believe the previous poster who allowed food works is a state secondary and I'd be interested to know what subject!

What job doesn’t allow you to go to the toilet

ForUmberFinch · Yesterday 19:35

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · Yesterday 19:26

Children are constantly told that school is “preparing them for the workforce,” as if that’s some profound educational philosophy rather than a tired slogan wheeled out to justify anything. But here’s the plot twist, the actual work place has rights!

Under the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, employers must provide clean, accessible, well‑lit toilets. They cannot tell employees to “hold it until break.” That would be a health and safety breach — potentially even discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. Adults get toilets. Adults get dignity. Adults get legal protection.

But children? Apparently children live in a parallel universe where basic human biology is treated like a moral weakness.

In schools, needing the toilet magically transforms into a “behaviour issue.” Being human becomes “disruptive.” And denying kids access to a toilet , something that would get any employer HR fearful of being sued, is repackaged as “building resilience.”

And the punchline? Teachers themselves are protected. If a teacher needs the toilet, they ask for cover. No punishment. No lecture. No “wait until break.” Because adults are allowed to be human. Adults are allowed to have bodily functions. Adults are allowed dignity.

Children, meanwhile, are expected to sit in discomfort so the school can maintain the illusion of control — even when that control directly contradicts the very safeguarding principles the Department for Education claims to uphold.

We’ve normalised a system where children are subjected to treatment that would be illegal, unethical, and professionally catastrophic in any workplace. But slap a school badge on it, and suddenly it’s “for their own good.”

NEVER in nearly 2 decades of teaching have I been allowed to go to the toilet during class. Including during two pregnancies and horrendous morning sickness. You are spouting rubbish

Cosyblankets · Yesterday 19:42

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 18:47

Registration 8.30, first opportunity 11.50 and that of you can get a toilet whilst everyone else is trying to.

What time is break?

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:45

Cosyblankets · Yesterday 19:42

What time is break?

11.50. they aren't allowed between lessons

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Cosyblankets · Yesterday 19:45

ghostofchristmaspasta · Yesterday 19:02

I don’t expect students to ask to go to the toilet, they can just get up quietly and go to the bathroom.

Other staff members went on and on about it for a while but they seem to have learned that my philosophy of trust and responsibility actually works. It’s very rare for anyone to abuse the ‘privilege’.

I also let students eat in class if they are hungry, ask questions without raising their hand etc. I don’t introduce unnecessary rules, I just expect the young people to conduct themselves properly and they do.

I completely agree with you here OP.

This would have been abused in the school I worked at and I would have been disciplined for them being out of lessons

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · Yesterday 19:46

ForUmberFinch · Yesterday 19:35

NEVER in nearly 2 decades of teaching have I been allowed to go to the toilet during class. Including during two pregnancies and horrendous morning sickness. You are spouting rubbish

I work in safeguarding across schools and social housing, and I see every day that teachers do go to the bathroom when they need to.

If your employer led you to believe you weren’t allowed to use the toilet, that’s really unfortunate — but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re legally protected. The law overrides any internal school policy, so it’s absolutely not “rubbish” to point that out.

Cosyblankets · Yesterday 19:46

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:45

11.50. they aren't allowed between lessons

So what time is lunch?
Most schools have two lessons then break

Sweetheart1990 · Yesterday 19:49

Cosyblankets · Yesterday 19:46

So what time is lunch?
Most schools have two lessons then break

Lunch is 1.10pm

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