School toilets

[Sweetheart1990]

School toilets!
Son text me to say he had walked out of lesson after being refused permission to go to the toilet, he had finished all his work. I have always told him to do this if he is desperate but he never actually has before.
He has been put in isolation.
I'm angry as I really believe that students should be allowed to go when they need to and he had completed all tasks so was just say in the classroom anyway.
What does everyone else think?

Or perhaps what he wanted was actually a shit. One of those that comes on incredibly fast because somethings upset his tummy. Do you want him to shit his pants? Or do you want a girl, who doesn’t want anyone knowing she’s on her period to bleed through her pad, pants and trousers onto her seat as is what happened to me?

I mean well done on having a wee before a meeting like a big girl, but surely you can imagine the toilet isn’t just for wee wees!

Some people have never experienced a classroom of today. As a pp says, you can set off a very disruptive train with pupils going awol if you allow willy-nilly (!) toilet breaks. Of course if someone is unwell or truly desperate the teacher can use their discretion.

Funnily enough kids never used to need the loo constantly at school - and yes, I’d be interested to know if all these kids with especially minute bladders can last through a film or need breaks during a particularly intense gaming session…

Brilliantly put.

And also, the kind of kids who don't want to be told what to do and/or prefer to go vandalising and causing trouble at school rather than learning are not the kind of kids who will actually bother turning up for class in the first place.

You end up with a respectful, conscientious child who gets caught short and genuinely needs to leave for two minutes to use the toilet being refused, as a punishment for the kids who didn't bother to come to the lesson in the first place and are already merrily trashing the toilets or vaping behind the bike sheds.

Well my primary class manage

No but give an inch and they take a mile. There is so much messing about that goes on in the toilets.

This. My DD’s school bans any phones from the school gates. If they get caught with them, it’s confiscated and the parent has to collect the phone from the office. No way would my DD be allowed to text me during the school day.

At my son’s school they have to ask permission but then are told to go and come back quickly which they do. They have a 10 min gap between lessons though to move around the school grounds so generally it’s only in double lessons that someone might need to go to the loo.

At the local comp I understand the children have to ask permission and then wait for a spare teacher to come and escort them to the loo, as they had a lot of problems with lesson-dodging kids hanging out in the lavs. My youngest sons best friend goes to that school and got a bladder infection from holding on too long during a double lessons though so as he wasn’t allowed to go despite asking 3 times! I think that’s shocking, and in your circumstances I would be asking for a meeting with the head of year to calmly talk through what went wrong and why your son had to ‘disobey’ his teacher (unacceptable to expect him to sit there and wet himself, but from their perspective perhaps he should have asked sooner or something).

so what is your solution? How do you avoid the situation described the experienced teacher above AND allow students to go whenever they ask? A realistic solution that doesn't involve non existing funding or staffing resources?

I have no doubt of that; but there is also so much fulfilling normal human bodily functions that goes on in the toilets.

How do you ensure that there's no messing about, trouble-causing or vandalism in the toilets at break times? Maybe schools could just get rid of toilets altogether and boost discipline and productivity no end (as well as numbers of children soiling and wetting themselves, of course).

Unfortunately there is a huge middle ground of kids who might not smash up the toilet or vape but would loiter, maybe stuff down loads of paper, meet up with mates to waste 20 mins or look through the windows of classrooms they pass making faces at the kids inside. We cannot operate schools full of 1000+ teens like an adult workplace. I wish you could but you can't.

There is an attendant in there at break and lunch. There isn't in lesson time.

Oh you’ve got to love the non teacher views on this. You have NO idea of the chaos that goes on in school toilets. Pupils co-ordinating timing to meet up, vape, graffiti on the toilets, block the toilets, destroy sanitary products and even use the toilet floor instead of the toilet. Out of a class of 20, I can have 17 asking to the toilet!

we do use our common sense. But we are also aware of the pupils who ask out every lesson. Or who cause disruption in the corridors when let out to the toilet. I can’t suddenly leave a class and go to the loo. Even when I was 39 weeks pregnant. Or during my period when I’ve bled through my pads. If you talk about human rights, where are the teachers in all this? We go before class and at breaks.

OMG if I need the loo I go. End of. It's a human right.

For kids who cba at school. Using the toilet as an excuse should be managed. For other kids, it's fine!

Where on earth do you work that you can't go the loo whilst in a meeting?

You would excuse yourself then go.

But you would go.

I’m 42 and my mum said to me if I was having period issues and a teacher said I couldn’t go, to just go and she would deal with it later
I had to do it a couple of times when I could feel I was flooding or sneezed or something

I honestly think that all of you people who have voted yabu should go into your nearest school and try teaching a class yourself, just even for half an hour.

Take your wise and noble words about teachers needing to respect students and tell them all that they can toilet when they want. Try joking with them, laughing with them as you cruise through all the work together. Then, sit at reception for a bit and chat to all the parents who ring you up.

See how long you can stick it out for and then back and update us all.

I have massive respect for teachers, I couldn’t do it.

but if my child needs the toilet they’ll be getting told to go.

I've never understood the weird desire that teachers have for controlling when children can use the toilet. Very strange.

Contempt for cleaning staff is often adult behaviour, the things I've witnessed - people throwing stuff on the floor because it's the cleaner's job to clean up after them and verbalising this, calling a cleaner to pick up an item dropped at their feet, whilst they stood there. Telling their kids that if they don't work at school you'll end up like X cleaning floors.
Everyone should be required to work a stint cleaning in their life.

What do you mean unlikely?

The problem with waiting till break time is that unless the school have hundreds of toilets then you have 1000+ pupils trying to use maybe 50 toilets

Even at 90 seconds per use for every pupil that is about a 25 minute wait to use the loo and given that breaks arent that long then some pupils will be still needing the loo when they come back into class and 25 minutes of your lunch will be spent queuing to use the loo and knowing you won’t get to use the loo till you get home.

Wonder whether the cost of manning toilets during lesson times might be much cheaper than the cost to the NHS and the subsequent disability payments for those that are affected by kidney issues because they didn’t go to the toilet in school as a child

Well firstly, I wouldn't instantly rule out allocating funding from the tight budget or staffing resources to it, as it's clearly a very basic need - so I don't see why allowing children dignity (and preventing health risks and distraction to learning of people soiling in class) is instantly considered less important than everything else.

Another teacher upthread has said about telling children they can go as soon as another child gets back. I would have thought then that most children's faces and body language would involuntarily give away whether they were just wanting to go and mess about (and give off 'thwarted' vibes and change their minds) or actually need to go urgently - in which case, they could be allowed.

I don't run a school and I don't have an answer, apart from maybe firmly focusing on educating and disciplining the children who misbehave to cease or expect consequences, rather than denying innocent children a basic human right and somehow considering that a 'solution'.

@shuggles I think we've explained a lot here but I will say it again as the more people that understand the reality in schools the better:

We aren't on a power trip. Some children will use going to the toilet to get out of work, to meet up with friends in a co-ordinated way, to vape and I've even known one child get caught with a shoplifted pre-mixed alcoholic drink. Expensive damage also gets done in this time as well as hygiene issues (blood on the walls, poo on the floor) that our cleaning staff have to deal with later and render the toilets unappealing for other students.

We, therefore, want to limit opportunities for this to happen. It is very difficult to judge who is genuine and who isn't and so many schools have a blanket ban. Children who have medical needs do have a toilet card often and, in extremis, some teachers will take a student at their word and let them go. However, this can create problems - Miss, why did you let X go? I'm desperate too! If you aren't careful, you end up with a stream of children leaving the classroom and, when they are out of the room, we don't actually know where they are. From a safeguarding perspective, we'd rather avoid this.

Schools don't have the money to have toilet monitors and during teaching time staff are teaching so we are not available to watch the toilets! CCTV in toilets would be rejected, understandably, by many parents. Consequently, schools are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I think you're not being unreasonable at all!

People are often sheep who follow rules blindly. You're doing well to teach your child to stand up for themself and listen to their body. It's not a regular occurrence, it's not taking the mickey - it's a basic human need that the school needs to respect.

(Any school that prohibits bathroom breaks with this level of stupidity and lack of consideration is not a school my child would set foot in. You're doing great.)