More Advice please

[NeedToAskPlease]

Hi everyone and thankyou in advance for your advice. I did post awhile back but l do need more help please!

I am a runner (well ... more of a plodder as I'm very slow) and run 3 times a week. Two 10k and parkrun on Saturday. I try and swim and do a Les Mills Combat class.

I also have started strength training to complement my running. I don't want to gain bulk, it's solely to prevent injury.

I had a PT session but in hindsight he wasn't a good "fit" for me as he did no cardio himself and wanted me to drop that to lift weights... l had explained l wanted a programme to compliment my running 🤷‍♀️

My problem is, when l have done the workout l can barely walk for 2 days afterwards and it's really affecting my running as I'm in so much pain with my legs. I strength train on Sundays usually so the run on Monday is basically a walk... and even today I've had to cancel my gym class as my legs are still sore and l don't want to risk injury to my tendon again.

My routine is:
Leg raises x 34
Bench chest press with 7.5kg dumbells x 36
Situp using 5kg weight on chest x 30
Calf raises with 20k bar on back x 45
30kg deadlifts x 36
30kg squats x 36
Abduction/adduction 27kg x 42 for both
Assisted pullups x 36

These are broken down into 3 sets

I really need my legs to stop being so painful for days afterwards. Am l doing too much or not enough? Should l just put up with it and "man up"?

The strength training is only for injury prevention....not to bulk up or gain a 6 pack etc!

Wow, that's all on one day?! No wonder you're sore!

To be honest, if you're just using it for mobility, recovery, a bit of strength improvement, etc, I'd probably do free kettle bell exercises.

Even professionals wouldn't combine squats, deadlifts, bench etc on one day, you're maxing out everything in one go.

Thats a very high volume workout. High volume isn't 'wrong' (I say that because the current fashion is very strength focused, which tends to mean heavy weight and low volume) However the more reps you're doing of anything, the lighter it needs to be. High volume low weight can be good for endurance, but this is too much.

The workout seems a bit odd to me too - leg raises aren't great because they are very very difficult to do correctly, and unless you already have a core of steel, there's a good chance you'll be relying on your hip flexors - which is a lot of strain for a runner. Even if you can do them correctly for a very intense core exercise why would you then need weighted sit ups? Squats and deadlifts are too much pressure on the back to go in one session, unless one is just technique practice with very light weight. And calf raises are sensible for a runner, but again, not at that volume (or even with weight, if you're new to it)

I don't have much experience of strength training for runners, though I do two other sports and the advice is always to do compound exercises for a full body workout. Mainly because you can keep the volume low, you get the best 'bang for your buck' for a small amount of training, and you're not creating imbalances. Then a small amount of sport specific exercises if you need them. So for example

Workout A
Bench press
Deadlift
Assisted pull ups

Workout B
Squat
Overhead press
Seated row

• these two workouts (alternated if you're doing once a week) would be quite short, full body workouts. Then you could add in what you feel you need specifically for running - eg core work, mobility, or things that help with stability/changing direction, such as Cossack squats and lunges.

I'm not sure how long you've been strength training, but usually after a couple of sessions your body adjusts and you don't feel as sore. If you are sore, reduce the weight next time and gradually build it back up.

It takes a LOT - a real lot - for women to bulk up: I can deadlift 1.5 times my bodyweight and I still wear size 10 trousers & have a flat bum. Get that fear out of your head.

The DOMS you describe is just discomfort from cross-training, but you might also not be doing appropriate mobility & stretching. The DOMS will go away as you start to move in your walk/jog/run, and your body will adjust.

But in terns of strength training, you are doing too much in one session, and not heavy enough. It is better to do fewer reps, but heavier, and try to strength train twice a week, so you can break down this one huge session with 2 rather more focussed ones.

My routine is:
Leg raises x 34
Bench chest press with 7.5kg dumbells x 36
Situp using 5kg weight on chest x 30
Calf raises with 20k bar on back x 45
30kg deadlifts x 36
30kg squats x 36
Abduction/adduction 27kg x 42 for both
Assisted pullups x 36

And to be honest, I don't see the logic of this programme. If you do squats with a heavy enough weight (counting the bar @20 kilos - try for 45, so try putting a 10k plate on each side, and work up) you could do 3 sets of 5 reps, with a 2 minute rest in between. The last rep of each set should be only just manageable - you should be a bit puffed out by the end of a set.

I only do 12 reps of squats in a set as a warm up, and I just squat the bar (20 k).

Why leg raises, calf raises, squats and abd/adduction all in one session? Choose 1 main lift - the squat - and go heavy. Then maybe a couple of accessories that you do unweighted, such as lunges and step ups (onto a box) or even box jumps (jumping up onto a plyo box), which help with mobility and bounce.

Then do deadlifts for your whole posterior chain (back, glutes, hammies) plus maybe something that focuses on back mobility & flexibility - Jefferson curls maybe? (very carefully at first).

Then a cool down which focuses on flexibility & mobility in your hips, quads, ankles, and calves.

How is your flexibility generally? can you do the shin box move for your hips? Can you get your fingers to your toes? Can you swing your torso to the side, keeping your hips facing forwards?

And of course @Proteinpud is right about not doing squats & deads in the same session. Alternate them, or try to squeeze in a second session during the week.

It does look like a very generic 'toning up for ladies' programme rather than a programme to specifically to complement running.
If you are confident with doing lifts with good form, then there are loads of free programmes online.
The DOMs should pass as you start to build some muscle but there is a bit of an element of having to woman up and push through the pain. It should diminish as you get warmed up but obviously if you get sharp pains it could indicate injury so do listen to your body.

I know twice a week is usually the minimum recommended for strength training, but if OP is running three times a week as well as occasional swimming and a combat class, once a week weights is plenty. Anything more and she would have to drop something else.
It's not unusual for athletes (of other disciplines) to do one strength session a week.

Lots of athletes do a specific sport session - running, rowing, cycling or whatever and a weights session on the same day, several times a week.

It depends how serious you are and what your fitness level is.

@MagpiePi I suppose it depends on your sport, but I don't think the idea of 'more is more' is a sign of how serious you are.

The best jiu jitsu athletes at my gym - who are professional full timers in their prime - train twice a day, but that won't include sparring every day or heavy weights more than once a week. To do so would be counter productive for their sport.

Running isn't my area of expertise but given it's intense & well known for niggling injuries & the OP is aiming for injury prevention, it doesn't seem sensible to recommend a punishing weights regime on top of the running routine.

I agree that you wouldn’t do a hard ‘sport’ session and a heavy weights session every day, but even for amateur athletes you can do more than one session a day.

When I was rowing more seriously I wouldn’t think anything of a water session before work then weights after work followed by a ‘fun’ club circuits session.
Ten years on, I’ve taken up running half marathons and am I’m just about to do a 30 minute easy run followed by a medium heavy weights session. If I was doing sprint intervals or a 40 minute tempo run I would do more of a rehab weights session

I agree with pp that that is a very odd programme and no sign of progressive overload. Why are you doing so many reps on the same weight and in the same set?

I do find if I only train legs once a week I get DOMS - they are big muscle groups and take longer to recover. But they would be much worse if I did endurance sets like you are doing. I do train legs only once a week, however, sets of 5-10 reps, 4/5 exercises (switch around so not the same every week) going heavy, now I am conditioned to that my legs recover faster.

Many thanks everyone.

So from what I'm understanding...

Try and fit in another weights session and split the workout so l only do squats or deadlifts etc

A couple of posters have said to use heavier weights but less reps - is that better then what I've been doing?

I think he's set you up with a great workout. Your legs will stop hurting as they get used to what you're doing to them. I have dropped weights mostly to focus on my cardio but realistically, if i was doing weights well then I would be increasing my cardio. When I went back to legs, it was intense and I feel your pain but it's only while your muscles are unsure of what's going on and then you'll be grand.

If you struggle, I'd do the weights over the combat class but keep the running.

Ask those body builders how easy it was for them to bulk! Hint; it isn't. You won't bulk unless your life becomes weight training and introduce steroids.

Better in the long run but it should be what's manageable/almost not manageable.

My workout for legs is this. Some people may find it shit but works for me. Weight's irrelevant to you but as an idea. For a few weeks I ached after. My bulk is solely because I love potatoes in all forms.

I do cardio 2/3 times a week around this 1/2 times.

Smith machine Squats - 2 x 10 with bar
Add until max with 8/10 sets. Usually stop at 8 x 80kg.
Inverted leg press - 10 x 100kg 10 x 150 10 x 200/220
Abduction/adduction 30 each
The leg raises and curls 30 each
Romanian deadlifts 5 x 10

A couple of posters have said to use heavier weights but less reps - is that better then what I've been doing?

It's up to you, but doing a planned progressive overload is what will make you strong. So if your current squat is 30 kg (bar plus 2 5k plates) next session, try warming up with just the bar (20 k), then adding 10 k (5 each side) for your first set of say 5 reps, then maybe add 2q.5 plates each side (35 k total) for the next set of 5 reps, then add another 5 k for the final set - so you do ascending squats - from 20 to 40k. If that feels good, next week go up to 45 for your final set, or start at 35 and ascend, adding 5k each set.

It's that sort of thing, that will build strength.

As a runner, you need to have strong glutes, and healthy mobile hips, I should think. Squats will definitely target your glutes, and if you develop proper depth for your squats ie top of thigh at parallel, then you're also developing mobility in your hips, knees and ankles, under strain (ie the bar + plates)

Lots of light reps doesn't really do anything, in my experience (but all bodies are different). Although, slow, slow step ups to a 20 inch 0r 24 inch plyo box or even higher stool will build your glutes, even without dumb bells. The step down should be as slow as possible while keeping your balance. Kills the glutes!

https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/the-correct-number-of-reps-per-set-in-the-gym/

This is the sort of guide a lot of people use. It depends what you want and what is possible/enjoyable for you and your set up. But if you want the strength and health benefits of lifting heavier weights then you need to train lifting heavier weights - and that means fewer reps.

Are all these reps in on single set, or split? To be honest it looks a good all over body approach, but that rep scheme/weight will not do much for you.

I used to do triathlon, and my workouts were focussed around the below movements:

Box squats- so barbell squats to a set height box (set to when your femur goes to parallel to the floor) squat down to the box, lightly sit and then use your legs and bum to push off to standing. Weight wants to be reasonably heavy but manageable for 8 reps, with the last rep feeling like you could perhaps do 2 more. Do that for 3 sets with around a minute in between. Box squats target posterior chain slightly more than normal squats, and will help with the leg power needed for sprints.

Kettlebell swing- 16-20 reps at a time, good form will target posterior chain and help with explosive power. 3 sets each time. Start at around 8kg and see how they feel.

Calf raises- what you're doing but split down into sets so you can go slightly heavier with the weight for less reps.

Peterson step- have a step around mid shin height. One foot on the edge of the step standing side on with a slightly raised heel (a small weight plate under your foot) and step down with the other foot, tap your heel on the floor, then raise so your foot is level with the foot on the step again. Try with bodyweight and then increase weight with a dumbbell or kettlebell. This is great for the smaller muscles in your hips and glutes, but mainly focusses on strengthening the muscles stabilising your knee and prevent ACL injuries... great to help with preventing running injuries. 10-12 reps each side x 3.

Assisted pullups- Again, 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps.

Barbell bent over row- helps strengthen back and posture.

It is VERY difficult to bulk up without a significant increase in calories, and significant sustained effort doing max weight lifting. Making sure you're eating enough protein will also help with injury prevention.

Good luck!

Oooooo my glutes are already feeling the DOMS of your description of the Peterson step exercise. Done slowly that must be brilliant for hips and glutes!