Fast 800 + training

[newyorkbreakfast]

I need to lose about 10kg. It's been creeping on these past 8 years since I was 40. I eat very clean but I'm clearly consuming too many calories (a few too many summer beers probably). I also train 5 to 6 days a week using Les Mills. I do a lot of Body Pump combined with Grit, Combat and Strength Development. The scales are still moving in the wrong direction so something has to change before I'm 20kg too heavy.
Has anyone perimenopausal tried Michael Mosley's Fast 800 and combined it with training? I have read in Stacy Sim's Next Level that women who train shouldn't really fast but it's disputed. I think I could maybe do it if I fueled properly before and after the workouts.
Would welcome thoughts on fuelling, training and losing weight. (I used to do the 5:2 for a year but found it way too punitive to sustain though I lost weight).

What is your BMI? I did Fast 800 and my thoughts are....it's hard to do intense exercise on 800 calories. The reason for this is when you get into ketosis it's not a great source of fuel for your muscles, you will feel sluggish. You can get away with it if you have some carb beforehand as then you have some glycogen available for your muscles to use, so I would have about 50g banana before exercise. It didn't affect my weight loss. If you do decide to do it, you absolutely must read the book and join the Facebook group, and in the first two weeks I would not expect to do any exercise besides walking as you will be switching into ketosis with all the joy of 'keto flu'. Lastly if you are close to a healthy BMI don't do Fast800, do a different version like 4 days normal and 3 days fasting, as you don't have enough fat reserves. Also, if you already train, just to throw a spanner in the works, you may not actually have that high body fat, and you might just benefit more from eating in a SLIGHT calorie deficit plus increasing your cardio output, it will take longer, but fast weight loss is not always sustainable anyway.

I did Fast 800 and now eat maintenance, I have since started to do weight lifting, before that I was doing body con etc. and spin. TBH the efficiency of lifting heavy for muscle leanness etc. is, well, very efficient, so it might also be worth considering whether you want to just try training heavier! I've just done a bit of a surplus and gained muscle and am about to do a slight deficit to drop fat I picked up and show the muscle more. The weight on the scale becomes slightly less relevant but I do go by whether my waist is increasing - it dropped an inch when I first started to lift heavy.

In the bigger picture I think F800 is good for people who may be obese and have a lot to lose. Once I was near my BMI, even 3 fast days were hard, I rarely went below 1200 on those so not even really fasting anymore. And if you don't train, you risk losing muscle mass.

You sort of just need to get to your middling range where you know your maintenance calories are say 2000, and you might have a day of 2200 but then a day of 1900 plus cardio and it balances out.

I PERSONALLY don't think it's ideal when training to be chopping and changing calories at drastic levels, the brain very quickly knows when and what to expect food wise. If it doesn't have enough it will simply prioritise basic functions and recovery.

I found (early 40s) sugar literally clings to me 🤣 I cut out added sugar and alcohol, it was the only way, not averse to an occasional drink but occasional.

@MistyTrains thank you for your fabulous response. You've confirmed my fears. My BMI is ok tbh, I just want more muscle definition. All that work and nowt to show for it... I think I'll do some tracking and see where my weak spots are beer and take my own lunch to work. I'll also join a gym so I can lift heavier as I've got limited weights at home. Only 27kg on my barbell. You've spurred me on thanks so much!

@newyorkbreakfast glad confirming your fears was a helpful response, I think!?

Don't think there is nowt to show for it...you will have built underlying muscle and strength...just stepping up a notch on the journey! Your approach is individual to you at the end of the day.

On the beer front, Dash (non alcoholic) drinks are great, fizzy but zero cals, sugars and no sweeteners.

Good luck on the weights.

The other reason not to do it I just learned about, which I wish I had known, is that when you lose weight (and I imagine this is more pronounced if you have some but not huge amounts to lose) you lose WEIGHT which is made up of fat, and muscle if you are not strength training allongside it. Once you have lost that fat and a propotion of muscle, IF you then put it back on, as often happens in this type of yoyo dieting, you don't put muscle back on, you just put fat back on. bSo say you lost 10lbs, 3lbs of which is muscle, then put 10lbs of fat back on, but you have 3lbs less muscle! And the closer you are to your BMI the more muscle gets lost.

As I am finding, building muscle takes good nutrition and calories, heavy lifting and time.