When to change a workout?

[Proteinpudding]

Some of you will know from the lifting support thread, I strength train and do a couple of sports. The reason I mention it first is that while I love strength training, the main goal is to be strong for those sports, and I also get variety within those. Eg the sports include gymnastics type movements which also benefit strength, mobility etc.

However I realised from looking at my tracking app that I've been consistently strength training twice a week for nearly two years. My workouts are always based around compound movements - squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press, pull ups and dips. Not all in one session obviously! I vary it in some respects eg switching between high and low reps, and if I have time might add in a few other exercises eg core work, hip thrusts etc, but the basic workout tends to be the same.

Just curious as to whether it's beneficial to keep this going as a basic foundation, or if I would be better off changing my workout?
Im so used to thinking of compound lifts as being the biggest bang for your buck, so to speak, that I'd be reluctant to drop them - especially when it's not realistic for me to do more than two weights sessions a week. But 2 years feels a long time to do the same routine! I've never stayed consistent this long to question it, and just wondered what other people's thoughts are?

@Proteinpudding which sports are you referring to when you say 'my main goal is to be strong for these sports'?

A push, pull, squat, hip hinge and carry form the basis of most strength programs. Good trainers often go for progressive overload with a set program and change it up roughly every 3 months. There are loads of variations for each of these lifts that may be more sport-specific and add variations which may be more fun.

Ultimately, is your method of lifting still showing progression and helping your sport?

@SportsAndExerciseMedicineDoc the sports I do are Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and capoeira. For the jiu jitsu, a lot of it I would say is about injury prevention and just being able to hold my own - jiu jitsu (for me!) often involves being squashed by bigger people, having to push back against them etc. Capoeira includes a lot of squatting, lunging movements as well ones that require upper body strength (handstands, cartwheels, and movements on one hand including bent arm) And the explosive movements, eg fast kicks.

I've definitely found being stronger helps with both, everything from my endurance, to grip strength, to being able to push big people away, to get up off the floor etc!

I'm still getting stronger in the big lifts which is one reason why I wonder if there's any merit in changing them. As I said I do vary them with tempo, reps & sets but I rarely change the actual exercise. I do find barbells quite satisfying! I have pre ordered some adjustable dumbbells which will give me more scope for unilateral work, which is one reason Im thinking about whether to change it up for a few months.

Also I feel I should probably clarify - my strength training isn't solely for the sports, otherwise id be doing sports specific. More that I train for health, having a base level of strength which helps with both, and that I don't want my strength training to get in the way (eg I wouldn't strength train 3 days a week because it would affect both my time and ability on the mats)

Thanks for the info. I’ve done BJJ for many years, though less frequently recently, so can write with some knowledge. Capoeira I don’t know so well.

I think of two things that may help:

(i) Your lifts are very strength-focused rather than power focused. Both your sports have power elements, so some additional power-specific work may help with progress. If you know anyone who can help, getting guidance on cleans, power cleans, hang cleans etc can help. Getting out of the guard, passing guard, escapes etc are typically power-based moves.
(ii) variations of your current movements can help e.g. pull-ups using your gi wrapped around a bar. Heavy farmer's walks can help for grip strength. Front squat to maintain a straight back when sitting in the guard.

Lots of BJJ people I know swear by kettlebell workouts too.

Honestly, I think the big opportunity in BJJ is to increase VO2 max and aerobic threshold. People focus on strength but neglect their cardio other than through rolling. Boxing, Muay Thai etc have worked this out years ago, but BJJ is still behind. Being fitter through a strong base of cardio means you don’t gas out, can make decisions quicker under fatigue and recover quicker so you can do more volume.

For health, power-based moves are underutilised in favour of strength work. Adding power movements can help with both health and sports-specific aims.

As you are getting adjustable dumbbells, why not try one of Caroline Girvan's EPIC programs?

@SportsAndExerciseMedicineDoc thanks that's really interesting. And nice to talk to someone else who does BJJ! It's hard to get across what the sport entails to people who haven't experienced it, so it's really useful to talk to someone who has!

It's a good point about power. I used to have that in my routine without thinking about it, as I used to do a calisthenics class for years, in which we'd use pylo boxes for jumps etc, train high pulls. And we used to have a conditioning for grappling class which would include movements like 'jumping' from kneeling to squat and then sprint down the room. Neither classes exist now, and I hadn't thought about that being lacking. I mainly train at home now (well, bjj and capoeira are both at their respective schools but there's no attached gym) I'll have to have a think about what I can include at home. I've trained cleans before in a class (olympic lifts for CrossFit) but it was years ago! I do have kettlebells and that might be a good shout. I love farmers walks and that's one reason I've ordered the dumbbells.

I was hoping no one would tell me to do cardio 😬I probably should try it! I always hated cardio, but didn't realise until a few years ago that I had undiagnosed asthma, which is why I was so bad at it. Treated now, so I should try it. Any recommendations for building up cardio fitness - eg steady state or intervals, or a mixture?

@Tulpenkavalier I've mainly heard about Caroline Girven in the context of weight loss. Have you tried her programme, and if so how did you find it?

Some fantastic advice from @SportsAndExerciseMedicineDoc

My friend (and former PT) is a BJJ black belt (trained under Roger Gracie) as well as a former powerlifter. He does a lot of PT work with BJJ people and one of his big focus items is rowing for cardio for BJJ.

If you have the funds, you could book an online training session with him (he's based in London) or just follow him on Instagram as he does lots of free advice there and shares lots of rowing/BJJ specific workouts etc.

This is him:
https://bodytransformationlondon.com/meet-the-team/james-cooper/

https://www.instagram.com/jamescooperbtx/

He looks a bit like a thug 😜but he's the most lovely, genuine big-hearted guy. I've known him for 8 years (from before he set up his own business - which is now super-successful)

Good stuff, it sounds like you’ve got everything you need to stay healthy and be dangerous on the mat.

I’ll make an educated bet on where you’d get the most bang for you buck given your sports background and the fact that you ‘hated’ cardio: the bet is that your aerobic threshold is going to be quite low and that you build up high lactate levels quickly. I’d forget the intervals for now and focus on your aerobic threshold. This means brisk walks or, if fit enough, slow and long jogs. You want to be at the point where you are breathing a bit harder than your normal walking pace and can speak full sentences with effort. Don’t go over this intensity: you get plenty of intensity from your sports.

Focus on doing this frequently, then go longer and only then start increasing the intensity. What you’ll find over the weeks is you’ll be abler to go faster and faster for the same level of effort. It takes patience, but the pay off is worth it. Paradoxically, this low easy work will help you be able to train harder during the rolling sessions, recover quicker and reduce the risk of overtraining.

Alternatively, if you want to reduce strain, do the above but use cycling instead of jogging.

If you really want to get the most out of it, spend some money and get a metabolic profile done: fuel usage (carbs vs fat), VO2 max, aerobic threshold and anaerobic threshold. You’ll learn the pace and heart rate you should use to make progress. You’ll also learn how to fuel the sessions - vital to preventing overtraining.

Thanks @HundredMilesAnHour . Rowing is great for cardio, but I think it’s really difficult for most people to keep it at an intensity low enough to elicit the adaptations I mention above.

Rowing is great for cardio, but I think it’s really difficult for most people to keep it at an intensity low enough to elicit the adaptations I mention above.

Very true, unless you've been shown how to row 'properly'. I'm an ex-rower (competed internationally) and the majority of people I see on rowing machines in gyms make my eyes bleed. I can't bear to watch them, I find it too upsetting.

Really appreciate the advice in here, it's fabulous!

I think I might try some gentle jogging. I'll actually be interested to see how I fare - I've had a few years now of treatment for asthma, plus the capoeira and bjj. Pre diagnosis I'd be out of breath really quickly and never seemed to make any progress and it frustrated me, hence disliking it. I know when I first started asthma treatment my peak flow test was <200, so it's not surprising I wasn't having fun. Inhalers have made a big difference, so I'll see what running is like now.

@HundredMilesAnHour I am picky with technique whatever I do, and while I won't pretend I know a lot about rowing, I also cringe at what I've seen in gyms! Amazing number of people who don't seem to realise that legs are involved! Those who row for teams are insanely fit though, so kudos to you.

Ha @Proteinpudding I'm with you on legs. I try not to look at people rowing (because I get too upset/angry/disgusted) but when I do I mutter either "use your legs, stand on it" or "fast hands" and shake my head in disgust. 😂I do sometimes speak to the trainers in gyms and ask them to have a word with the bad rowers. 😛And occasionally if someone is receptive, I'll happily coach them on rowing technique. Sitting on the erg doing slow steady state rowing for an hour is my happy place. I'm sad like that. 😂

@HundredMilesAnHour when I trained at commercial gyms I used to enjoy rowing - as long as I didn't look at the display. I'm so, so slow (for distance) I remember a PT being incredulous that I couldn't hit what he assumed to be a fairly gentle target for a warm up. That was before I realised how much of a difference height makes. Being short, rowers and air bikes - at least with any targets involved - are my nemesis. But if I can just be allowed to work at my own level, I can genuinely enjoy them.

Im impressed you spoke to trainers, but having seen trainers in some of the budget gyms I think you'd probably need to give them coaching sessions!

Oh bless you @Proteinpudding yes, rowing definitely suits the 'long levers' of tall people best but you should still be able to do well if you use good technique. It's all about power and technique. I can cover more distance with faster splits while doing a much lower stroke rate because of my technique. It can be quite annoying if you're that silly competitive man (and it's almost always a man) on the rower next to me when you realise I'm kicking your arse despite looking like I'm taking it pretty easy. 😜

Have a look at Dark Horse Rowing on youtube. He does some very good rowing workouts for all levels - regardless of height 😏

Height shouldn't make a difference on the airbike though. That's all power. I used to do some competitive drills on airbikes in the gym and the biggest, strongest men had me beaten on literally the first strike of the pedal as they were so much more powerful. Frustrating! (and probably my payback for being snooty about rowing technique 😂)

The ski is another one where taller people have the advantage but oh how jealous I am of shorter people when it comes to weight lifting and burpees. There's nothing worse than trying to do synchro burpees with someone who's much shorter. Argh!!

I've mainly heard about Caroline Girven in the context of weight loss. Have you tried her programme, and if so how did you find it?

Goodness, where have you heard this ?!!! Caroline Girvan is serious weight training. If anything you gain weight, since muscle weighs more than fat...

I have completed most of her programs - EPIC 1, 2, 3, Heat, Endgame, Fuel... it's tough, but totally worth it. Life-changing, actually.

Hello @Proteinpudding , as you know, I train cali, and have seen some of the folk who win national comps in action. They do loads of pull-ups, dip etc and don't move on from them. They will use different progressions tho - eg high pulls and muscle ups (with bands if needed for mere mortals 😀) to work on explosive power, weighted pulls for strength, hands up push ups (can't remember their name) for power again. If your compound lifts are getting stronger and you are uninjured, I'd be happy but maybe you could tweak the progressions on the bodyweight stuff to emphasise power a bit more, if that's what you want?

I think with two strength sessions a week you are best off focussing on the big compound fundamental moves if that is working for you.

@HundredMilesAnHour maybe the people at the crossfit classes were just being kind to us shorties when consoling us about air bike targets then 😂 I agree about the burpees, it's definitely easier to get to the floor from here!

@Tulpenkavalier perhaps I used the wrong term, I have heard a lot of people recommending Caroline Girven to people wanting to lose fat/tone up. I know she uses weights but it's more of the high intensity/high reps/'feel the burn' then I'm looking for - I think that would be too much with my sports as they feature short bursts of high intensity and resistance. I'm glad you've found such a benefit though

@MsMartini I take your point, I've decided to follow some of the advice up thread and think about the movements but change the exercise for a couple of months. Actually going back to some of my cali training exercises!.

Yesterday I did a quick kettlebell routine - swings, clean and press, cossack squats. Some (bodyweight) jumping squats and push ups, and an extra band to do some more explosive pull ups. Enjoyed doing something different, although must admit I'm feeling it today!