Is it true about Charlotte Dujardin withdrawing from the Olympics?

[Freakwave897]

Or is it fake news?

It’s so disappointing if true…

I am a huge fan and can’t quite believe what I am hearing.

If you owned it and were filming, why on earth would you be laughing instead of immediately intervening?

Has another video emerged showing which of the 2-3 witnesses was laughing, who they were and what they were laughing at?

If not, then that's dangerous speculation. If there is another video that means you are commenting on a proven fact as opposed to conjecture then I don't know, I can't understand that if that's what happened.

In terms of why nobody intervened in the moment - the human threat response is fight/flight/freeze. Lots of people freeze in a situation like that. You can hear that the rider is scared, why wouldn't other people have been?

Blaming the rider, blaming the filmer, blaming the other people in the background all sounds like victim blaming and lots of the narratives you see about rape victims are being used here. "Oh why didn't she fight back, why didn't she stop him, why didn't she scream". Well why was he a rapist and why was Dujardin beating a horse - those are the questions that are relevant.

You can't even see what was happening off camera yet people are happy to whip up a mob saying vile unproven things about them.

The person to blame is Dujardin. Her behaviour was wrong. She is shown in the video, has admitted it was her, and she deserves opprobrium.

Speculating about, and apportioning blame to, individuals who aren't even in the footage is really dangerous. Speculatively naming other people as being involved is also inappropriate and potentially dangerous.

If you degenerate into vigilante mob behaviour, you no longer have the moral high ground to censure Dujardin or press for real change in the industry.

Lots of people laugh when anxious, especially when uncertain. CDJ was ‘the expert’ , the world champion. I imagine a young adult watching may have been concerned, but also uncertain etc

Lots of people wouldn't have the guts to stand up to someone like Charlotte - or indeed, any so-called professional.

Can we stop trying to blame the witnesses? It's really unpleasant. The only person responsible for this is Charlotte. Nobody else. Charlotte.

Fair enough I will ask for my post to be removed as it is too speculative but you are wrong to accuse me of not blaming CJD.

Condemning people laughing at abuse doesn't mean I think CJD is not responsible. The two are not mutually exclusive.

If you read my posts properly I have consistently blamed CJD since watching the video.

It is possible to be appalled by her actions AND the people present who were laughing.

The young pupil isn't to blame certainly.

But I wouldn't let anyone abuse my horse like that in front of me, or any other horse for that matter.

Is personal responsibility a moribund concept all of a sudden?

We all have a duty, if able, and brave enough, to intervene and challenge it if we can surely?

Even if I was too scared, I wouldn't sit there colluding and laughing.

Even if I was too scared, I wouldn't sit there colluding and laughing.

You don't know what you would do because you weren't there. Anything you say is just speculation.

It's really easy to say you'd respond in XYZ fashion when you're not actually involved.

I think most of us know ourselves well enough to take an educated guess.

There was nothing there that would make me chuckle. Not in a million years.

This. We all hope that we will do the right thing but truly we do not know until we have been there....especially at that age. Afterwards (and we hear it on here) "I should have said....I could have done.....I wish i had....."

I agree. I’m an arrogant, grumpy arsehole who has told plenty of trainers to bugger off when they’ve tried to do things (and not taken a polite refusal), but I have also let a trainer get away with doing something awful to one of them because I was so surprised by it.

I also don’t think it’s particularly relevant whether the owner of the horse is a dick who thinks it’s ok to treat a horse like that, but wanted to screw CDJ in the Olympics or not. I don’t care why the video was shared, it doesn’t mitigate for the content, and raising it does distract from that.

also (like me) you are experienced at being a grumpy arsehole. In my youth I had had less practice.

An educated guess isn't the same as what you'd actually do when put in a certain situation, though.

It's very easy to sit here behind a screen and say "I'd never do that" - but the reality is, you have no idea what you'd do. Have a look a the bystander effect - it's not some random made up theory, it's real.

It's also not particularly relevant to the discussion - Charlotte is the one in the wrong here, nobody else.

Exactly.

It's very normal to be completely intimidated by someone like Charlotte - it's hardly the first time a celebrity has gotten away with poor behaviour because people have been too afraid to speak out!

In support of my statement this isn’t just a UK problem:
https://eurodressage.com/2023/09/29/danish-equestrian-world-turmoil-ethics-national-federation-are-questioned

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/dressage/dutch-investigation-launched-into-rollkur-lunging-149313 (An old one)

https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2022/05/rolkur-dead-or-alive/ (All about rollkur)

https://nakedhorse.wordpress.com/2016/08/20/olympic-shame-tarnishes-the-gold/ (Discussion of the Parzival controversy at Rio)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/sports/blood-rule-equestrian.html (The US)

And this is the FEI table of suspensions:
https://inside.fei.org/system/files/Table%20of%20Suspensions%20-%2024%2007%202024.pdf
Those thinking of switching to endurance on the basis it is more ethical may be interested.

All this being said, I still suspect that unintentional cruelty is more common than this type of behaviour. I think this is a shame because I suspect that the horse-human relationship is heading towards extinction. Maybe it should, but I think both species have got a lot out of it over the centuries.

Have none of you been in a situation at school or work where one person was being bullied and others were watching and laughing until a third person spoke up in defence of the victim and objected? And the bullying stopped after that point?

Because I have. The bully is the one at fault , no doubt about that.

But if you sit there and collude and watch abuse happen to an animal which can't speak up, and you are not in physical danger, imo you also need to bear some of the responsibility, at least if you are an able adult of sound mind.

That's why there are laws relating to "guilt by acquiescence".

That doesn't in any way mitigate responsibility for the bullying by the perpetrator.

I can understand in this situation someone not realising that what is happening in front of them is abuse, especially if it is being carried out by an Olympian, but would I laugh as the whip struck? I think not. I would sit there confused and upset trying to will myself to act.

nervous laughter is a thing.

Those are all shocking examples.😢😥

Thank you for posting HornungTheHelpful, horrible though they are to read.

The entire sport needs a complete re-set right to the top.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a uniquely British problem are they?

The dressage world is tightknit and international.

The disgusting thing is that CJD put herself out there as someone who promoted horse welfare.

As someone who stood up to someone (not an Olympian but a relative bigwig) in fairly similar circumstances more than two decades ago, I can assure you that my fifty something self would not have the slightest hesitation in calling out anyone, CD or not, who I thought was being cruel to an animal.

Don’t tell me what I would or wouldn’t do. I make a living from having difficult conversations and standing up for the right thing.

Genuinely, I'm glad for you.

But it's not right to criticise those people who aren't as confident or sure of themselves as you. Surely you can see that?

Well said Gradgirl 👏

Hopefully now someone has brought this video to light, more people will have the courage to do the same thing. All of us who work with horses should at least try and do so.

@Freakwave897 i may have been pre-empting a non-existent backlash to my statement that the Dutch are notorious!

They are very sad, but are a minority. I think the fact that we are monetising the horses does contribute though. So I vilify amateurs (of which I am very much one) for not knowing enough and the professionals for making it their livelihood so that welfare has to compete with cash. Maybe that is a sign that we should consign equestrian sports to history. I don’t know. But I know the more people who consider these things, the more we will do better. One way or another.

I haven’t criticised anyone, I’m just very certain of who I am and how I would react. Not sure why you would be ‘glad for me’ tbh.

But if you sit there and collude and watch abuse happen to an animal which can't speak up, and you are not in physical danger, imo you also need to bear some of the responsibility, at least if you are an able adult of sound mind.

The only person who is guilty here is Charlotte.

I've seen so many people on social media criticising the witnesses and it just smacks of deflection and victim blaming. It's horrible - and likely a huge reason why they didn't want to speak up at the time! Can you not see the connection?

You aren't the same as this person though, can't you see that ? It's not the same situation.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't be rightly proud but we don't know what other pressures this person had or what other things someone had going on.

I should undoubtedly have made a huge fuss about how a cafcass officer treated me, but I didn't because I was scared of the repercussions for my children and because I was fighting a health battle. If I raised it at a later date it wouldn't make me opportunistic it would mean I was in a place where I felt strong enough.

The fact is, there would be no opportunity for someone to be "opportunistic" if the Dujardin hadn't whipped the horse vigorously and relentlessly. She has only herself to blame

Not everyone has the self-assurance and confidence of (in your own words) "a fifty something who makes a living from having difficult conversations."

Your comments do come across as being critical of the witnesses and of anyone who's said it's okay not to have the guts to stand up to someone like Charlotte.

Oh, and I'm "glad" because some people would love to have that level of confidence and strength. It's genuinely great that you have the ability to stand up for yourself in that way.

Not critical of anyone else at all, you seem to be keen to make random assumptions. I was merely affirming my own characteristics after this.

'It's very easy to sit here behind a screen and say "I'd never do that" - but the reality is, you have no idea what you'd do. Have a look a the bystander effect - it's not some random made up theory, it's real.'

The fact is, there would be no opportunity for someone to be "opportunistic" if the Dujardin hadn't whipped the horse vigorously and relentlessly. She has only herself to blame

Exactly!

All these comments about the witnesses and why this only came out now are totally irrelevant. If Charlotte hadn't chased a horse around and whipped it repeatedly, none of this would have happened.