Is it true about Charlotte Dujardin withdrawing from the Olympics?

[Freakwave897]

Or is it fake news?

It’s so disappointing if true…

I am a huge fan and can’t quite believe what I am hearing.

This is not trial by social media though is it?

Trial by social media is people making assumptions or coming to conclusions that are unfounded, unevidenced etc.

This is clearly NOT the case. The evidence is there in full colour, there can be no denying what has happened, so no-one is coming up with theories, or assumptions.

People's "reactions" on SM are exactly that - reactions to the evidence they can see very clearly in front of them. You can't stop that.

I am utterly appalled by all of it, I was just starting out dipping my toe into the dressage world and this has completely put me off. I have started having lessons with a couple of different trainers and finding some of their language and stance around teaching a little unpalatable, absolutely nothing on the the CJD level, but just the nuance of "letting them know who is boss" rather than working with the horse as a partnership etc and was feeling a bit like was it really an avenue I wanted to go down. I did my first test a few weeks ago and in one of the arenas was a woman whacking her 4 year old horse as it was napping to go into the arena and I just thought....oh dear is this what it is going to be like if I start doing low level competing.

This has absolutely floored me, I honestly believed CJD was one of the good guys, I have read so much from her about her love for her horses, the unique relationships she has etc. I read about her horses all living out in paddocks instead of 23/7 in stables and was going along in a little bubble thinking it was all lovely true horsemanship. It's not just what she did, but the way she did it, the commentary as she did it - it is the polar opposite behaviour to the person I had bought into :(

I am not putting anyone on trial, I can see exactly what happened and have made my own mind up from that evidence alone, and am disgusted by it.

But if people don’t shout about this @HornungTheHelpful, then nothing will be done, don’t you see that? When the rot starts at the top, they ignore the issues because it lines their pockets. Multiple people on here have said that there have been rumblings about CD for years - you think those in the know genuinely had no idea?! Come on, you’re not that naive.

People are free to shout about it on here and via social media platforms all they want - in this day and age, it can be extremely successful. If everyone just ignores the video she wouldn’t have resigned, she wouldn’t have been dropped by her sponsors, the message that people will not stand for this wouldn’t be getting out.

And you have no idea what people on here have or are doing for animal welfare. And maybe now, having realised the general consensus, more people will say ‘Hey, actually that thing I saw at my local riding school wasn’t okay, I can speak up’.

You’re telling people to shut up if they don’t do XYZ - well no, people have the right to be extremely angry about this and to express their anger however they feel (except for threats of violence etc of course). I hope more people noisily express their disgust, maybe that way the message will start getting through across the whole industry that abuse is unacceptable in every form - no matter how “fraught” the relationship is. You never raise your hand or leg to an animal. If you cannot develop that relationship without doing so, you’re in the wrong industry.

@HornungTheHelpful

So instead of condemning someone who will be dealt with by the relevant authority, let’s go stroke our horses, and maybe read a few pages of a book on saddlery, or horse anatomy or even communication.
Why not do both? Condemning CDJ and strive to improve things? Why should people not talk about how they feel about the sheer callous brutality of CDJ? It's shocking, people are shocked, they want to talk about it. Why do you want us to 'shut up'?

Take the time that we’re wasting here to meal prep to support weight loss, spend 10 extra minutes in the gym to become stronger and more balanced to help out the horses we ride. 😂Speak for yourself.

Your posts read like deflection and blame shifting. Why don't you start a thread about all the welfare issue you feel strongly about rather than lecturing us?

Sadly I think she will have a ban from the FEI (I think they were saying 6 months) will issue an apology & be back competing at the next Olympics. Look at the likes of Ollie Townend who whipped his exhausted horse to elimination at Badminton, has had several warnings for overuse of whip & was forced by the ground jury to stop on one occasion because his horse was so tired - yet he still has his horses, his sponsors & was selected for the Olympic team this year (pulled out due to injury)

Thank you for two thoughtful and informative posts @HornungTheHelpful

Exactly this, which is why I think we all need to be noisy about it and let them know it’s not good enough. Laws to protect animals are absolutely not strong enough and when you have the top people behaving this way it just makes it okay for everyone else to. If they don’t come down hard on her it will simply tell everyone else that they can do it too as the consequences will be so bad it’s not worth the risk.

A lifetime ban would be ideal. Plus a conviction to ban her from owning horses again.

Anyone caught abusing animals should have an automatic lifetime ban, yet it rarely happens.

@HornungTheHelpful here here. You are not deflecting blame. And I agree with: a) the video of C, the casual bullying manner and the commentary has absolutely sickened me, and b) amateurs are (sometimes unintentionally) as cruel to their horses day in, day out, on yards across the UK. All the examples @HornungTheHelpful lists and many more. I know more than one horse that has had to be put down due to supposedly well meaning but uneducated owners.

Purely from the horses POV, I suppose it’s hard to know which causes more suffering. I can’t speak for them to answer that.

I am NOT excusing CDJ at all, because she does know much better and has the skills to boot, and she should have the book thrown at her. AND, we really need to improve overall standards of horsemanship in this country.

I have spoken out at yards and shows a few times, with mixed results, but I agree that we all need to DO something to educate and raise issues when we see them, not just bitch on social media if we really want things to change .

I have spoken out at yards and shows a few times, with mixed results, but I agree that we all need to DO something to educate and raise issues when we see them, not just bitch on social media if we really want things to change .

But you don’t know who does? This is a discussion on a discussion forum. I used to work in a related field and have called out lots of animal abuse, so what? That doesn’t mean that anyone else can’t have an opinion. Some people won’t even be aware that this sort of abuse is happening, this will be their first knowledge of such a thing, they’re well entitled to express their anger and let those at the top know they won’t accept it. Social media can be an trowel tool for eliciting change - if that is how some people want to speak out because they don’t have the condition be confrontational then that’s okay - people can use whatever (safe) method they like to get their voice heard, it’s not up to anyone else to tell them how to.

I have just checked her website. The sponsors page has been removed.

Accolades remain though. " CJD's riding , which is normally so subtle as to be virtually unnoticeable..."

That word 'normally' is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting after the recent revelations, isn't it.

I've watched the video a number of times. It gets worse not better. There is one occasion where she lashes the poor horse one way and then the other.

I wish I could hear everything that was said. I realise how naive I have been.

I can see this escalating into a much wider scandal.

Er.. she's a multi millionaire! She wont be facing any kind of financial ruin at all. Very fortunate to be able to live quietly in a large rural property for the rest of her days if that's what she chooses.

So if every person currently talking about this shuts up and let's the FEI sweep it under the rug then what will change? Scandals have happened before and it still goes on.

Perhaps the people who see themselves in what CD did might think twice in the face of the public outrage and question their own methods. That won't happen if people don't talk about it.

So let's talk about horse welfare more broadly. The horse doesn't care if it is done with knowledge and understanding or not - it is just a horse in pain. The FEI is dealing with her - it may well be that it is inadequate. We'll have to wait and see. But in the mean time, while I've found a thread full of people overwhelmed with concern for horses, I am - rather than starting "... a thread about all the welfare issue you feel strongly about rather than lecturing us?" - using this obvious forum of individuals who care so strongly about horse welfare to talk about the welfare issues that I think are probably causing at least as much damage to horses as is this one woman. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm lecturing - that's really not my intention. It just seems odd to care about this one incident, or this one woman, but not to care about the other equally worrying and likely equally or more widespread cruelty.

Unless it's just enjoying piling in on someone who has fallen from grace? I'm not a CDJ fan, but if you care about horse welfare rather than enjoying another's (deserved) misery you should care about these things too. I know I care about both. There's no deflection in saying "this is awful - but it's high profile and will be dealt with. If you care about this maybe you also care about these other things too. Please think about addressing some of those because with those your outrage and action might actually make a difference, which it isn't going to here".

I agree that she certainly won't be facing financial ruin. The horses she co owns and owns alone are worth hundreds of thousands. Even without doing anything again, she is a very wealthy women. That doesn't mean she won't suffer mentally from this obviously, but she certainly won't be penniless.

ok here you go. And these will be only the ones who were killed on a racecourse. No mention of injuries in the yard or the horses that don't make the grade. https://www.horsedeathwatch.com

https://www.bhs.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/raising-a-concern/

I'll just add the BHS link here for anyone with concerns about horses, or for info about whistleblowing.

The problem is @HornungTheHelpful, is that you are making the assumption that she WILL be dealt with. I have been involved in a similar industry and as I’ve said repeatedly, very few people actually get the restrictions and action brought against them. You keep saying she will be dealt with, but actually it’s unlikely that will happen. However, the more upset there is from the public, the more likely it is that she may face the right outcome, and if she does, it’s a strong message sending out to others which MIGHT protect other horses.

You can encourage other people to speak out more whilst allowing them to express their upset over the situation, it is possibly to do both. And as I said, some people may not be aware of the abuse that goes on. This will be eye opening for them, it will encourage them to seek out avenues where they can do, it will give them courage to have a voice.

But @AvacadoBathroomSuite is the outrage on here going to change whether or not she is dealt with? As I said, what the FEI come up with may well be inadequate (though maybe wait and see before we decide it won't be adequate) - so I agree with you that it may well not be dealt with effectively. But being outraged here won't change that outcome. If you feel that's the most important concern start a campaign in relation to the FEI and their process for dealing with these things. Or appeal or judicially review a decision by the FEI when it is given (happy to put you in touch with some sports lawyers who can tell you how to do these things or what other avenues might be open to you in this respect if you'd like to pursue it). But those things are much more difficult and time intensive than simply complaining.

Also, please dial down the hyperbole. Nothing I have said denies anyone the opportunity to "express their upset over the situation". It's just I rather expect a lot of that upset is hollow, because paying for saddle checks, losing weight, calling out people when abuse is actually going on is harder and more expensive than ringing hands here. And I don't like that. It does nothing to address the problem while leaving people feeling as if they have done something. They haven't.

I'm not perfect. I've fucked up through ignorance myself. I've not spoken out when I should. But I try really hard not to make the same mistake twice where welfare is concerned. Maybe my guilt for those inadequacies drive how I feel now. But I don't think anyone should be allowed to turn away from the uncomfortable truth of owning, interacting with and riding horses because they have said "ooooo look at that pretty rich girl, she's horrible. I condemn her." By all means condemn, the behaviour is appalling, but don't think that gets any of us off the hook, or improves horse welfare. It just doesn't.

I wasn’t able to catch up with the thread this morning, just doing so now.

While I agree with some of your post, save for the sexism and ageism it contains - fwiw I’ve seen plenty of unbalanced and unfit young people out riding, and believe it or not, some of them were men - I disagree that the entire thread is unedifying.

It contains many measured posts among the hyperbolic ones, and I for one have learnt a lot from it.

As a former fan, when I first heard that CD had withdrawn from the Olympics, I genuinely couldn’t believe it and thought it must have been caused by a technical error. I now know better.

A thread on the subject of cruelty to horses is never going to be all sunshine and flowers and the discovery of what CD has done has been a genuine shock and disappointment to many. I think posters are allowed to air that and discuss the ramifications for her, and the sport as a whole.

CD has destroyed her own career, livelihood, reputation, credibility, sponsorship through how she chose to behave. (And
British Dressage and the FEI have a mountain of work to do.)

Many of the things you list in your post which undoubtedly cause horses harm, are carried out as a result of ignorance by amateurs who don’t know any better, and that’s completely different to wilful acts of cruelty carried out by one of the top professionals in the sport who has unmatched skills and resources.

There is absolutely no excuse for it.

The fact that she was the spokesperson and poster girl for proper welfare standards in dressage makes her actions even more despicable. Because she knew what she was doing.

However, I agree with you and many moderate pps that while CD’s cruelty was completely abhorrent; her actions in themselves have destroyed her reputation and credibility, a huge nasty pile on achieves nothing. Also a toddler’s welfare should be taken in to account here; a vicious nasty campaign of trolling is helpful to no one and could potentially be as harmful to a child as CD’s actions were to that poor horse. Neither are acceptable.

@HornungTheHelpful you literally told people to shut up in your first post - so yes I think you’re trying to dictate how people express their anger and no it’s not hyperbole.

Do I think this forum chat will make a direct difference? No. It’s people expressing their feelings. But do I think that lots of people expressing their anger for her actions and making that known will make a huge difference to things - because people will learn that it isn’t acceptable and we won’t be quiet about it.

There are lots of ways to express your anger and if some people want to discuss on social media or sign petitions then that’s their way of using their voice and I support them.

Anything that helps to protect animals from abuse is okay by me, if it’s someone calling it out online or face to face.

@HornungTheHelpful Couldn’t agree more!!

a vicious nasty campaign of trolling is helpful to no one and could potentially be as harmful to a child as CD’s actions were to that poor horse.

But who is advocating this? People saying ‘This is unacceptable’ and saying they would like to see her see suitable retribution such as an animal ban or a ban on participating is fair. No one is advocating for anyone to hound their family or abuse her. But by saying out loud ‘We won’t stand for this’ lets others know that it cannot be gotten away with.

No one should be sending death threats or anything of the sort to her family, as many of us have said over and over.

Why on earth would CDJ’s cruelty to horse/s result in harm to her child?

One hopes the child won’t receive corporal punishment.
edit: Hiding behind a toddler now is very lame.

i think this will be a kick up the bum for competitive British dressage. As I said, been following this story for a while and so far the people who have been named and shamed with photos and video's have been Europeans. There has (or it seemed to me from what I have read) an underlying sense of "Oh those awful europeans, we don't do that in the UK" Well that's put an end to that!

From people sending death threats and such. People can get very extreme. I recall a group of activities stealing the corpse of the matriarch of a family who bred guinea pigs for animal testing…but any such thing is unacceptable. It’s about focusing on protecting the horses and showing that abuse is not acceptable, so a ban for life for both entering and owning horses would be adequate.

My point @AvacadoBathroomSuite is that this isn't something that helps to protect animals. It's just a way to revel in someone's downfall and pat one's self on the back for being on the right side of an issue that one does not care sufficiently about to actually do something that will help (and I know nothing about you - if you say you do act then I accept that you do, but many on here won't and will somehow think this has the same effect.)