Do you hit your horse?

[Rookiehorseowner]

As a first time horse owner at a livery yard I am surrounded by people with many many years of horse ownership behind them.
My new horse is lovely but currently not great to lead on the ground.
I’m surprised that some say I should hit him or pull his Headcollar up and down quite hard to show him who is boss.

Do you hit your horses, and if so under what circumstances? Or does a gentler approach work for you?

stressedespresso
**
Oh do get a grip, and a bit of education while you’re at it“

You have no idea

🤣🤣🤣

If you want to screw your horse up and make him/ her not trust you and have even more behavioural problems- then go ahead and hit, but I hope they hit you right back! There is NEVER a justification for Hitting animals, can’t even believe your on mumsnet questioning it!!!

It’s really very simple. If you love another being, why would you hit it?

You think it's funny that your granddaughter abuses animals?

No I would never hit a horse. You need to change the company you keep OP.

This thread ought to be closed down. If someone asked “”do you hit your child/dog/cat there would be unanimous outrage. Why is it ok to hit a noble, sentient animal in any circumstance? It isn’t, end of.

Apologists on this thread need to take a very long, hard look at themselves (and their motivations for doing what they do).

They key difference being that children, dogs and cats do not weigh (on average) 500kg and do not pose a major safety risk.

I agree that no one should ever be raising their hand and hitting an animal in anger, except perhaps in self defence, as a last resort, if a bear or a dog, for example, was intent on attack.

In ordinary equine training situations though, there is absolutely NO excuse for anyone to be hitting a horse with intention to harm. As many horse people below have stated, if you have to resort to that, then you are simply demonstrating your lack of skills.

However, I disagree that this thread ought to be shut down because somewhere along the line, the subject of spurs and crops and their use was introduced, which is a totally different topic really, and I think equestrians and those with daily hands on experience of horses, should be allowed to put their different viewpoints across.

I own a horse that is all muscle and weighs 850 kilos, whom I love like one of my children, and if it were necessary, I would far rather give him a light guiding tap on the shoulder to reinforce an aid, than yank the reins or, God forbid, his mouth.

Most of the time it’s not necessary, but I have been in a situation when I was riding a short distance in light local traffic to get to a bridle path, and my horse was spooked by a loud motorcycle, and he turned his hocks slightly towards the cars, jogging along slightly diagonally, and it was very helpful to be able to use my crop as an extension of my arm, to hold the line as it were, to keep him, me and other road users safe. But a crop should always be used positively to guide or reinforce an instruction and never to punish.

Equally, I don’t use spurs because I don’t compete, but would far rather a skilled rider with a good seat used a very light touch of a rounded blunt spur on my horse than have someone kick his flanks to get him to speed up. Again, it is necessary sometimes to get your horse to move forward promptly in order to be safe.

Neither the tap of the crop or the slight precise pressure of a spur are intended to harm, but to guide, steer, reinforce and encourage, which is perfectly acceptable imho if done calmly, intentionally and correctly.

I was a PA for a teen who had a horse at a livery stable and would accompany her to see her horse... the kids on the yard were fierce with their horses and I was quite shocked how some of them seemed to slap the horses for the smallest of things but not being a horse person to me it seemed the norm as they were never reprimanded for it by the stables owner.

I used to event so have some experience in spurs. Firstly, they’re only and I do mean ONLY to be used when a rider has complete and total lower leg control. Secondly, my horses sides were akin to a chess board… a cm or two difference in where the tiniest pressure was placed and I was giving a different aid (asking for something different) so they are essential at a certain level. Of course they should never be used cruelly, no decent horse person would use them so. Sadly some people aren’t decent. Most are.

No. I genuinely find the hardest part of horse handling, is ignoring all the people who tell you to hit or whip or yank the halter. I had to ask the farrier to stop this type of behaviour just this morning. DHorse was already quite anxious enough (farrier had accidentally nicked his coronet) without adding more fear.

For your specific issue with the horse going too fast when being led, you’re on the right track with circling. It has to be done over and over again, like when you train a puppy to walk nicely.

Another tool is to halt, praise for halting, then get him to back up a few paces. I do this with an unfamiliar horse by pulling gently back on the lead rope, gently tapping the chest and giving a voice command (back, back). Then praise for backing up.

You can also engage his brain by asking for a turn on the forehand - stand at side, gently pull lead rope towards you while tapping his side and giving a voice command (over). Repeat on each side and praise.

Also pay attention to your own breathing and body language as you can calm your horse down by pretending to feel calm yourself :)

Especially with an unfamiliar horse, an attempt to dominate through fear is just as likely to lead to really dangerous behaviour from the horse.

I will tap on the nose with a finger for nipping (after inadvertently yelling and waving my arms around, which is honestly more effective than the tap), and I will shoulder check him in his own shoulder if he puts me between himself and a fence, but otherwise I try to divert and praise as for a toddler.

Lots of conflicting advice here! Just as at your yard, I imagine.

What stood out for me is an issue I came across a lot as a 'horse' trainer (usually ended up training the owner...) was that the owner had only had him for a short time and was then experiencing problems. Please bear in mind that his world has been turned upside down. As another poster said, they are prey animals, whose safety comes from knowing their herd and their place in it, and their surroundings. He will be scared and on edge for many weeks until life settles down.

How he ends up feeling about his new life will be down to you. He will hopefully learn that he can look to you for effective, calm, assertive but fair leadership, someone he can defer to to be the one who makes the decisions, someone he can trust to have his back. I found that the vast majority, unfortunately, go one of two ways: they either learn that their leader will bully and boss them about, and that they must 'listen' 'obey' or be hit/smacked/shoved about/yanked, etc. They will give in and put up with it because they don't want to be bullied, but never trust you when you need them to, and not be happy. The other way will be to feel angry and defensive about it, that they can't trust the 'leader' so have to take over the leadership themselves, or even fight back against the poor leader. This is because of the idea that 'you must 'boss' him' 'you must take charge' etc.

It is perfectly possible to be the leader, take control, be the boss without resorting to being that kind of leader that no one wants to follow. Please research clicker training, positive reinforcement, even Pirelli (which has its problems but can be beneficial); natural horsemanship. Just for now, with the leading, try to focus on the groundwork as others have said; if you're going from A to B and he's barging you, try to preempt it by asking him to stop then back up a pace - each time he starts to do it. Take your time. At first it might take you ages to get to where you're going, but he will soon accept that you expect to be the one in front (to one side of his head). Remember you can do some of the groundwork in his stable, if he is in one, just getting him to move around you when and how you ask him to.

If you want to look for a trainer, pm me your location I might know someone in your area. Enjoy your new friend!

@MrsSkylerWhite You really aren't getting it. The way you describe this jockey behaving would nowadays get them banned from racing and probably imprisoned! And they would soundly deserve it.

No-one on this thread is advocating for that. When we say tap them, we literally mean TAP them. Some horses, and it's more common with horses who work at a riding school, do not respond immediately to leg aids.

My lesson horse has taught many a learner rider and learner riders don't have quiet lower legs. We wriggle about, brace on the stirrups, shift position and bump their flanks accidentally with our feet. When I squeeze him for a trot, sometimes he doesn't respond because maybe I wasn't clear or he wasn't concentrating and doesn't know if I want a trot or I'm just fidgeting.

If I reach down with the whip and touch him gently twice behind my leg or on his shoulder, he will trot. It's much more polite than simply 'kick harder' or making a bigger more exaggerated leg aid. I'm tapping him with no more force than I'd use to tap someone on the shoulder to get their attention.

He will also lift his feet for one of his disabled riders who has trouble bending too low if touched on the back of the knee with it.

Whips are not used for discipline or at least shouldn't be. They are just a means of clarifying an aid or specifying which exact action you are asking for. My personal rule is if I can't smack myself in the face with it in exactly the same way, I don't do it.

Oh, ok. So being whacked with a stick - as jockeys do very publicly - doesn’t hurt if an animal weighs 500 KG.

Well, who knew?

I smell horseshit.

No you're not whacking at all
It's a tiny movement
You're thinking of racing, I'm thinking of dressage. It's like comparing a pat on the bum to DH to move over vs punching someone in the face!
Here - she's riding with two whips to replace her legs. No hitting, no whacking but she wouldn't be able to ride without them

https://youtube.com/shorts/UhpbZ6UnTvo?si=RUqkRhEt2dVypO0I

Although to be fair a horse race whip is very cushioned. Have you ever caught yourself with the thin string end of a dressage whip? That really stings.

No-one ought to be hitting anyone with anything to force it to comply. End of. It’s really no more difficult than that.

Please don't hurt your horse

They're not hitting
So you're saying nobody who is disabled should ever be able to ride them if they can't use one or both legs? So no Paralympic riders then, that's gone

Am I hitting my cat when I pat him on the bum? Because that's the same as if I tapped him with a dressage whip. I have one here which he plays with the end of and he doesn't care one bit if I tap him with it
Am I hitting my DP if I tap him on the arm/bum/leg? No!

It's exactly the same as using your leg on a horse and a lot kinder than kicking
If you ban whips then you may as well ban beginner riders because booting continuously is much worse than using a whip with a tap

I was going to say no but actually I have had to do something similar to that when bringing ponies in. It's safer to establish authority in the first two minutes than risk a loose horse. Ideally shouldn't be necessary.

Thank you all. I’ve now found a trainer to help with groundwork so will just let anyone on the yard know that it will be her approach I’m following.

There’s an awful lot of casual cruelty in the horse world. It seems to be either the old school “you must dominate your horse, he’s just being naughty” or “this is how horses treat each other, you must be a horse, make him move his feet”. Horses aren’t dumb they know you aren’t a horse. I wonder when it will be accepted that kinder methods like clicker training are perfectly valid to train an animal to enthusiastically work with you.

I just know I would have felt the same as you op with the judgment and taking poor advice from these “seasoned” horse people when it’s at odds with how I would want to treat my horse.

good luck with your new trainer and your neddy!

This only works if you have a brain. a woman at our yard does it daily the last 2 years and her horses have turned vile. They are awfully rude, bargey and just horrible, nasty things. They have a constant expectation of treats.
Clearly she's not doing it right at all which has made it very dangerous!!

When we use clicker training on dogs, we only use treats for a very short while and then move to a fave toy as reward. i assume with horses you move from treats to a head rub or something?

I get told I'm too soft all the time ! Mine likes to plant and have a little thinking time when being lead somewhere... so I let her think then ask again gently, then ask firmly. depending on what it is I'll give them a treat as reinforcing the good behaviour. When its my idea, they dont get treats for mugging or begging. Mine gets treats for everything - picking feet up (1 for all 4 feet) mounting - treat - bridle on - treat, being caught in field - treat.

Its finding the balance between being pushed over and firm. Ive worked really hard to find the balance and get it wrong sometimes but all these people saying dont be firm have never seen horses playing in a field / determining herd hierachy before. Its all about setting clear boundaries.

My horse walks lovely on the lead, but Im consitent about where I want her to stand when i open gates, snatching grass is a no no, and always walking never ahead of me.

I always ask nicely first and anticipate missteps to correct at the earlier opportunity with the smallest possible correction.

So if I know a horse is bargy and will lunge for grass, i keep them at my shoulder lead rope in both hands and any 'strong movement' in the wrong direction (sometimes a look means I know they are going to try) gets a firm but gentle enough tug as correction. - This done correctly (all about timing) lets them know they overstepped a boundary and repeat often backed up with a verbal 'AH ah'.

They should then learn to lead nicely - but its all about timing. Leading safely is an important skill. Better one swift and firm correction then several harder tugs as you're being dragged away.

Consistency is key though with ALL handlers and needs to be mirrored in all handling elements ie getting in your space without your permission, barging in and out of spaces. Spend a few mins a day just backing them up and verbally rewarding and offering treats for the right behaviour. Voice is a powerful communicator. Best of luck

I don't eliminate treats entirely, but I do ask more between treats, over time. Learning not to mug for treats is one of the earliest lessons they learn from me. Mugging results in no treat. And I actively teach them to stand quietly next to me as part of the early training. I also use a certain version of 'yes' instead of a click, and other verbal clues, so my horses know when I am pleased with them. They are amazing animals, and will often work for a scratch or praise if you have the right relationship.

I have dogs too, but am only just starting to do it with them. In the horse world, we are very slow to catch onto this - it's the way forward in most other animal training now, and through scientific trials.