Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The tack room

Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

Do you hit your horse?

98 replies

Rookiehorseowner · 29/05/2024 19:48

As a first time horse owner at a livery yard I am surrounded by people with many many years of horse ownership behind them.
My new horse is lovely but currently not great to lead on the ground.
I’m surprised that some say I should hit him or pull his Headcollar up and down quite hard to show him who is boss.

Do you hit your horses, and if so under what circumstances? Or does a gentler approach work for you?

OP posts:
PinkCardigan93 · 30/05/2024 06:28

Rookiehorseowner · 29/05/2024 23:51

The problem is that he tries to walk ahead of me more quickly than I want to go and is strong to slow down or pull back.
I have tried circling him away when he does this, but with limited success.

His seller didn’t have this problem, but he’s only been at the yard, which is busier than his old one, a couple of days.

If there's a problem like this, then you need do address it via ground work. Not by hitting.

There are some trainers still stuck in the stone age. Horse training however is moving forward and there are lots of trainers about now who advocate for methods that actually are based on understanding the horse and horse psychology. I can list a few if you need!

Whitegrenache · 30/05/2024 06:35

Wow some of you need to be around young or bolshy horses and understand how strong they are before you comment and judge!

I absolutely adore my horses and my mare who is 16 never ever gets told off as she's an angel. However her daughter who is fast approaching 1 year old is a little rapscallion and absolutely needs putting in her place. So yes I pull on her head collar if she is bargy and I carry a schooling whip when I am leading and doing ground work but never hit her with it! It's used in a light motion like poking with a finger to give her directional aids. Any horse that has manners taught at an early age and is submissive to humans is set up for a good life

Bushtika · 30/05/2024 07:20

I am shocked by these comments about it being ok to hit horses. I rode a lot as a child but I don't remember hitting the horses being a thing.
It is against the law to hurt animals or for circuses to train animals using physical punishment. Surely, it is against the law for horse owners to physically punish them?
I

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 30/05/2024 08:14

No I don’t hit, I will use a firm shove on the shoulder/chest if something is being bargey but I don’t hit or yank at their heads at all.

And yes hitting a pony on the arse when you’re picking out it’s feet is a brilliant way to risk getting kicked in the head

For the OPs case I would simply make sure that the horse doesn’t get infront of you, every step they do they go back, and repeat ad nauseum.

I do think horse people are stuck in some very old ways in terms of treatment of their animals and a lot of children are sadly taught very rough riding/handling at riding schools

maxelly · 30/05/2024 09:38

As everyone else has said, a good level of training and manners on the ground are absolutely vital for everyone's safety including people around you so in one sense I understand your yard people's concern if you're inexperienced and have a rude/bargey horse, but how you get there is the thing and for that you need an understanding of horse behaviours and psychology. Horses are unique animals, they're not like dogs or humans - they're domesticated prey animals with a strong flight instinct who live in a near constant state of alertness and fear, which drives a lot of the behaviours that we attribute to 'naughtiness' - even for instance when my horse drags me across the yard to get to his food or puts his ears back if I approach him while eating, I may think it's just him being greedy which on some level it is, but also there are a lot of herd dynamics at play about who gets access to food and when, and it can be a real anxiety trigger for a lot of horses in a way we just don't understand. Plus while they are intelligent animals in a lot of ways, their understanding of human communication particularly language/verbal cues is quite poor, between horses they communicate pretty exclusively using body language, as vocal as they get is squeals, screams or nickers. Getting angry with a horse rarely works, nor does shouting or hitting or other forms of 'punishment' - the horse may well feel a lot of fear and aversion to whatever your punishment is, but they're unlikely to make the causal connection between the behaviour they were showing and the consequence, unless your timing and communication with them is absolutely spot on - and equally in the same way I see a lot of people who are doing their best to train using more 'gentle' positive reinforcement based methodologies like clicker training because again not all horses find it easy to understand the causal link between a positive behaviour and a reward (especially a food based reward) either - you can clicker train a horse but it requires an awful lot of skill, much more so than a dog (or a child Grin ) I'd say.

Timing and communication in a way the horse understands is absolutely vital, which yes usually entails some kind of physical response as that's what they understand best - which is why touch of some kind whether using sticks or spurs or bits or poll pressure or flags or ropes or whatever aid you use is a vital part of every horse training methodology across the world.

I think as a first time horse owner it's really, really helpful to enlist some professional help in working with your horse on the ground, I don't know why there's such a sense out there that this is somehow weak or a sign of failure. It doesn't have to be full on 'natural horsemanship' waving flags around and joining up unless that's your thing, it can be a more traditional teacher, but just some input into how to encourage the behaviours you do want and swiftly and effectively correct those you don't, in the very basic settings of your everyday handling routine and surroundings is so helpful. In the meantime rather than getting angry or overly physical as your yard people are so helpfully suggesting, I'd do two simple things, firstly just don't put yourself into a position where he's likely to be misbehaving with you in the first place, if you can avoid it. So if leading is an issue, minimize how much you need to lead him around - don't keep moving him from stable to tie-up to back to stable to wash down to the arena back to wash down etc etc unless necessary. If towing you to food is an issue try and never lead him to/from places where he's imminently about to get food, get into a routine where he's contained somewhere safe first, then food comes - my boy's manners go to pot wherever food is involved so for instance he is never, ever allowed to graze in hand or be fed treats in hand because I know it blows his mind, and I try not to even lead him past the grassy patches where I know other people hand-graze as it's just asking for trouble, if I need to go down there I will do it from on board as he understands much better than being ridden is not the time for eating. Or if it's about chasing towards or trying to get away from other horses, again avoid those situations altogether, bring him in first or last from the field or with one well behaved friend, whatever works. Second - when you do need to lead or do whatever is problematic - use your physical aids, not to whack or pull or hurt him in any way but for communication - presumably if he's broken to ride he understands bridle aids so lead him in a bridle and if you need him to stop or back up use your half halt just as you would from on board (you can also get pressure halters like a Dually or a BeNice but I wouldn't use these if you're relatively inexperienced until an instructor has shown you how they work). Practice going round a quiet area without distractions in hand, stopping, backing up, moving off again then stopping again with lots of praise when he gets it right, until he understands and responds to a quiet aid. You can carry a schooling whip in hand too if he naps or plants just to tap him hindquarters and remind him to move forward. Patience and consistency are the key, it's easy to fall into the trap of ignoring low-level poor behaviours as you can work around them and only starting to try and correct when it's a big/dangerous problem but of course again horses don't understand why a little bit of pulling or barging is sometimes OK but sometimes not, you need to be firm on the boundaries all the time and have the means to back this up where you need to.

maxelly · 30/05/2024 10:14

Bushtika · 30/05/2024 07:20

I am shocked by these comments about it being ok to hit horses. I rode a lot as a child but I don't remember hitting the horses being a thing.
It is against the law to hurt animals or for circuses to train animals using physical punishment. Surely, it is against the law for horse owners to physically punish them?
I

Well yes, of course cruelty or abuse is illegal, wrong and disgusting but it's where you draw that line. All horse training methodologies involve touching the horse and physical communication in some way - you really can't train a horse otherwise, they simply don't understand human language without physical cues. You can train a horse eventually to respond to a verbal command only but you tend to need to start with a physical one first, add a verbal cue to the physical aid then gradually reduce the physical aid until they respond purely from the verbal. E.g. my horse knows the verbal cue 'foot' and will pick up his foot to have his hooves picked out just from the word 95% of the time (and I always do them in the same order so I don't even have to tell him which one I mean!), but he didn't learn that from nowhere, when he was younger he would have been taught by someone physically touching and pulling/holding his legs to get him to pick them up (and incidentally, probably rewarding him with pleasurable physical touch like pats and scratches and stokes for doing the right thing too). And for the remaining 5% of the time, if he's distracted or something, I occasionally have to lightly tap his leg with my hand after saying 'foot' to remind him I want to see that foot - just shouting 'foot' increasingly loudly is going to frighten and confuse him and of course you can't reason with him using nice logical words either Grin.

I think everyone on this thread (even the poster who thought 'hitting a pony with a sassy attitude' was funny) would agree that beating a horse to the point where you physically injure them for not picking up their foot is wrong (and a recipe for getting hurt yourself like LastQueen said), but that me tapping my horse's leg lightly so I can complete an essential care task is fine - but then what exactly constitutes hitting or hurting? Horses are pretty violent with one another in the wild or even our domestic horses in the field are too so if it's only to the level one horse would do to another is that OK? If it leaves no mark is that OK? I'd say no to both in general but you can see where there's grey areas. Personally I do confess to occasionally using aids particularly with young horses that are designed to make a loud noise when hit against something (e.g. the classic piece of blue tubing to give a firm tap on the chest to discourage barging, doesn't hurt the horse in any way but does give them a shock/fright if they barge into it), some people would say that's in no way OK either.

What about use of aids or implements, they're pretty vital (few people can safely ride or handle their horse without at least some kind of bridle or headcollar some of the time for instance but I think we can all say some other things e.g. a cattle prod are not OK) - again opinions can vary, I mentioned pressure halters above, they work by applying leverage to the horses poll (top of skull) which is a sensitive area, a lot of people like them as they can be more effective than a bit and a lot of people think a bitless bridle is automatically gentler or kinder than a traditional mouthpiece but personally I'm skeptical, I think in the wrong hands poll pressure is just as uncomfortable or even painful for the horse. I ride with a whip most days which is another thing some people say is wrong, I only use it to flick or tap but it's common practice at UK riding schools for the children to be taught to back up their leg aids with a firm tap behind the leg with a short whip if the horse isn't listening, and you will see a variant on the same from Olympic riders going cross country if the horse backs off a fence or lacks confidence - is that wrong? It's really unlikely to physically hurt the horse used correctly so in one sense fine, but I do find it distasteful and poor practice to hear instructors yell 'whack! harder! again!' at some poor child trying to get their pony to move forward, even if in reality the child's version of a 'whack' is only tapping and the pony is completely fine and unbothered. I don't think there are any easy answers to be honest, the only simple answer is that really we shouldn't have domesticated/pet horses at all if the only way to train them entails some level of aversion training and physical chastisement and I don't agree with that either...

Balloonhearts · 30/05/2024 10:33

Definitely knowing where to draw the line. Would I wallop him hard enough to hurt? No. And I'd deck anyone who did.

They respond to physical communication, they don't speak English. What they do understand is the difference in.our body language between a pat and praise or a smack on the shoulder and reprimand.

If they kick, Immediate smack on the offending upper leg and 'don't do that!' After a few times they will start to realise that Don't do that! Is a telling off and you don't have to swat them. I can swat at him with a woolly glove now and he will pack it in. Certainly he barely feels it but he gets the message behind it.

Floralnomad · 30/05/2024 11:24

When any of mine tried barging I would get slightly in front of their shoulder chest and sort of body check them . It’s all well and good saying give them a smack but with my now deceased mare if anyone had smacked her she would smack back and she was a lot bigger than anybody I know . I would also resort to my old favourite of turn them round and make them back up the way you want to go a few steps and then turn and carry on , going backwards has got me out off many a situation .

NormalAuntFanny · 30/05/2024 13:38

As ever on these threads there's some confusion about what using a whip or crop actually feels like.

Before using my crop - which I do about one ride in three - I tested it on myself because I wanted to know what it was like and be satisfied it wasn't cruel and it really is like tapping yourself on the shoulder.

It's clear some people posting on threads like these won't be happy until riding itself is banned and will take any opportunity to be offended in their ignorance of what riding actually entails.

IOnlyComeOutAtNight · 30/05/2024 21:04

I had one horse that I had to occasionally slap on the shoulder as he could be bolshy and once told he would then behave.
In the circumstances you describe it would not be appropriate but you do need to assert yourself before he sizes you up and decides he can literally walk all over you.
Lots of horses push boundaries in a new home, partly because they are very upset at being moved.
I would lead in a bridle or a control head collar for now. The control head collars sold by Monty Roberts exert an uncomfortable pressure on the nose if the horse pulls. So he has a negative consequence for bad behaviour.
Also as others have said, if he tries to move forward too quickly you stop him and get him to back up a few steps before continuing. Never allow the bad behaviour to go unquestioned but stay calm and quiet.
You also need to develop a thick skin when it comes to comments from others. Everyone has their opinion but few are right.

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/05/2024 22:22

Before using my crop - which I do about one ride in three - I tested it on myself because I wanted to know what it was like and be satisfied it wasn't cruel and it really is like tapping yourself on the shoulder.”

If another sentient being doesn’t want you to do something with it without needing “a tap on the shoulder”, maybe just don’t do it?

The few jockeys I’ve seen (because once was enough) weren’t tapping their horses on the shoulder. They were whipping the shit out of them.

But hey, no worries, just keep telling yourself you love your animal. As long as it complies.

would you tap your partner/husband/wife on the shoulder to get them to comply?

No? There’s a reason why.

maxelly · 30/05/2024 22:35

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/05/2024 22:22

Before using my crop - which I do about one ride in three - I tested it on myself because I wanted to know what it was like and be satisfied it wasn't cruel and it really is like tapping yourself on the shoulder.”

If another sentient being doesn’t want you to do something with it without needing “a tap on the shoulder”, maybe just don’t do it?

The few jockeys I’ve seen (because once was enough) weren’t tapping their horses on the shoulder. They were whipping the shit out of them.

But hey, no worries, just keep telling yourself you love your animal. As long as it complies.

would you tap your partner/husband/wife on the shoulder to get them to comply?

No? There’s a reason why.

I absolutely would tap my DH on the shoulder or otherwise gently physically manoeuvre him to get him to do something, yes 😂 especially if he was deaf or non English speaking and didn't understand a verbal instruction/request. If you want to call that abusive 'compliance seeking' then go ahead, I call it working together in a mutually respectful and beneficial relationship myself. And jockeys in the UK and the rest of the civilised world are not allowed to 'whip the shit' out of their horses either, use of the whip in racing is incredibly tightly controlled and regulated to ensure no harm comes to the horses who are super-valuable assets and well looked after, so do try and get your facts right before spewing this sort of stuff. As people have commented on this thread there are grey areas and significant causes of concern in how some horses are trained in the UK but the whip in racing is really not one of them (I'd be way more concerned about cute over-indulged ponies in private hands myself).

IOnlyComeOutAtNight · 30/05/2024 22:36

I think jockeys racing horses are a completely different kettle of fish to other equestrians. I hate the way horses are treated within the racing industry. Someone will be along to tell me they live in the lap of luxury and have everything they could wish for. I personally think horses should be living as naturally as possible, only ridden lightly before fully grown (ie 6 years old) and not whipped into going as fast as possible.

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/05/2024 22:38

Rubbish. They certainly whipped the shit out of them at Epsom. One of them after the race because they lost. It was bloody awful to see and I was horrified. No-one else batted an eyelid. Disgusting.

GOODCAT · 30/05/2024 22:46

No I don't

sanityisamyth · 30/05/2024 22:48

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 30/05/2024 00:22

of no help, but i found it really cute when my grand daughter (8-9 years) was checking hooves/shoes and the horse was not co-operating she smacked his butt with attitude.

WTF?!

maxelly · 30/05/2024 22:48

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/05/2024 22:38

Rubbish. They certainly whipped the shit out of them at Epsom. One of them after the race because they lost. It was bloody awful to see and I was horrified. No-one else batted an eyelid. Disgusting.

If that really happened in full view of the public in the last 10 years that's against about 20 different rules of racing and would have caused those involved to be banned from the sport for months if not years. I'm not saying nothing bad ever happens behind closed doors or there's no welfare issues in racing, I'm not naive but people beating up their horses on the racecourse isn't one of them, truly.

To be precise, jockeys are allowed to use their whip (which has to be a specially designed air cushioned and foam padded bat intended to make a loud noise on impact but cause no pain, it can't be any old whip you pick up from a tack shop) up to 6 times only in a race, on the correct part of the horse's flanks where they are not sensitive, to avoid any possibility of hurting the horse (although honestly the racing whips are so padded I'd let an animal rights activist belt me with one as hard as they like to proove I'm not a hypocrite, they don't hurt). It cannot be used after the race has finished or from above shoulder height. Jockeys can and do get lengthy suspensions for even small infringements of these rules.

www.horsepwr.co.uk has the facts if anyone actually wants to engage in meaningful debate on the topic.

Thoroughbred Racehorse

HORSE PWR - SAFETY AND WELFARE IN HORSERACING

British racing’s hub dedicated to the Thoroughbred racehorse, the ultimate equine athlete.

http://www.horsepwr.co.uk

Copperoliverbear · 30/05/2024 22:50

This should be illegal people only hit animals, children or other adults because they can't control themselves, instead of learning to deal with a situation.
It should be illegal and people should receive prison sentences for hurting animals, long ones.

stressedespresso · 30/05/2024 22:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/05/2024 23:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StarDolphins · 30/05/2024 23:04

No way would I hit any animal. Suggesting it is awful.

stressedespresso · 30/05/2024 23:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StarDolphins · 30/05/2024 23:21

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 30/05/2024 00:22

of no help, but i found it really cute when my grand daughter (8-9 years) was checking hooves/shoes and the horse was not co-operating she smacked his butt with attitude.

Awwwwww how cute, melts my heart when I see kids smacking animals💕🥰

🙄

Blackcats7 · 30/05/2024 23:22

Never. All violence teaches is that you are unpredictable and not to be trusted. A relationship built on dominance and fear will fail but a relationship built on trust and understanding will not.
I was lucky to have the support of a very ethical and knowledgable trainer who helped me feel strong in standing up to more “traditional”views from one person on my yard who felt the need to try and tell me what I should or shouldn’t be doing. Her poor horse illustrated exactly what I wanted to avoid.
I spent a lot of time on groundwork and just being with both my ponies, at least as much as I rode and they were exceptionally good in every situation.

Swipe left for the next trending thread