Loanee selling my stuff

[ZestofCoffee]

A bit of an AIBU? I’m not going to do anything about it, the lady who has my horse on loan is cantankerous at best. I have an elderly horse who has been on loan for a number of years. I have owned him for over 20 years. I loaned him because I wanted to safeguard his future and felt he was better in a home where he was still in light work than not being ridden at all with me.

Loanee takes good care of the horse so I have overlooked all the other bits. They are very arrogant and difficult to deal with. Fall out with everyone - banned from FB groups etc for their obnoxious opinions. Its very difficult for me to visit because he’s a considerable distance away (I decided this was ok on balance because it was a good home) and because the loanee has made it clear my children aren’t welcome - I parent mostly alone and it’s very difficult to travel the distance within the constraints of childcare. I see the horse once or twice a year. But stay in regular contact.

Anyway - to the point I sent the horse with a full and extensive wardrobe, basically because I had no other use for it and had no plans to sell him (and still don’t and wanted to ensure he has the most comfortable existence possible. I have seen recently that the loanee is selling items of mine on Facebook. I know they won’t replace them - I had also seen my stuff on their other horses.

I’m just a bit pissed off - if they don’t want it they should offer it back. Not profit from it. My horse had a value at the time they loaned him and they’ve had a bloody good deal. For less than £100 I don’t think them should be selling items - if space is an issue let me know I’ll collect.

What are you waiting for? - get him back. I struggle to believe it's the best home for him. Get a solicitor lined up before you ask. Do you have anything in writing?

@HaystackHair yes all in writing. I made a full itinerary.

As a stand alone is this reason enough to bring him home? Although I accept it’s dishonest. One of my biggest bug bears on giving this situation lots of thought is the restrictions she’s put on me visiting with the kids. She simply doesn’t like children on her property and cites her other animals as the reason but in reality she is totally able to separate those animals - my horse is no issue with MY children and the risk is mine.

I am wondering how best to do this, loan agreement provides for a notice period but I am concerned she would move the horse. I don’t want to be an a-hole and turn up with transport but the distance makes it difficult to do anything else. I can’t have a wasted journey if he’s not there.

Just write to her and serve notice per the loan agreement. I think that's step 1.
Yes there's a risk she's a wierdo and moves the horse but also she posts all over SM and hopefully that means she may be annoyed but won't do anything stupid

I mean, imo it doesn’t really matter why you want your horse that you have legal ownership over back. The loan agreement I had stated that my mare was to be returned to the owner at their request, with a notice period of 14 days. This worked both ways, ie, if I wanted to return her to the owner, I had to give 14 days notice.

There was absolutely nothing in there regarding reasons why. So if Angela (not her real name) had rung to say she wanted her back as a companion or whatever reason, it wasn’t for me to question that.

Selling on a few secondhand rugs, and/or using them on her other horses is a red herring here. Bringing him home, and forking our for a companion, is going to cost far more than replacing a few rugs (that presumably he doesn't need/use).

If you're at a stage in your own life where you want your horse back, then just give notice according to your contract, and take him back. That's the whole point of a loan arrangement (even though I know it can still be very sad for the loanee, of course, but that's what they signed up to I'm afraid).

Don't look for excuses to somehow make this "her fault" - it will antagonise and escalate the situation unnecessarily. Just keep it neutral - "Thank you for looking after my horse so well these last 5 years. I'd like him back now please, because I miss him and I want him back in my life".

You own the animal you can have him back for whatever reason you want . Tell her what day you will be collecting him and if she does move him and won’t disclose where he is on the day then call the police .

Yes you’re right. I don’t need a reason really. My husband says the same.

She has always made it v clear she wanted to buy not loan, but equally my horse wasn’t advertised for loan and I have always said I would not sell.

@PickledMumion i wasn’t intending on repeating this discussion her with her. Her actions re selling tack etc are just another blow on top of other issues that have made the arrangement unworkable.

Unfortunately the police won't get involved in this kind of situation.

I'm obviously a bit dim here , as I don't own a horse but got strangely drawn in.

You have a horse that you only see once or twice a year and it's taken care of by someone else. I'm assuming that your paid for this loan.

Why have the horse?
Are you able to take back day to day ownership?
How have you allowed this person to assume day to day running of it?

I'm not having a go but just find it odd that you have an expensive pet that you barely see.
Or is this how horses are kept?

Genuinely interested.

You're not your.

In that case I’d just arrange to visit and turn up with a box , there is not really a lot she can do about it .

@VeraForever some people loan out horses that they no longer have a use for , generally no money is involved between the parties and the person loaning the horse obviously picks up the cost of care . It’s not something I’ve ever done ( loaned out or loaned a horse from someone) but that’s because I’m a bit too picky about how my horses / ponies were kept / worked etc and i like being in charge . Ultimately it’s a way of keeping ownership but without any costs as opposed to how my family do it which is keep everything and spend a lot of money .

I did explain I’ve kept him and not sold him to safeguard his future, step onto a livery yard and I can assure you they’ll be very few (if any) elderly, retired horses because most don’t last that long. Horses have a job unlike other pets. He was loaned to someone better able to meet his needs at the time, but I knew he wouldn’t be sold or profited on and fall into the wrong hands further down the line.

Plenty donkeys in rescue that would make good company if you bring him
home.

She sounds really odd! If you have a loan agreement in place then I suppose you could take her to court if she refuses to allow you access to get him back? Once you've got him, maybe a sharer would be a better option. Someone who just wants to hack out a couple of times a week and would contribute, but you still retain full control.

It's a 'thing' in the equine world. We borrowed someone's old pony for a few years - we met food and farrier etc costs and they had a nice home for him and no expenditure.

Definitely not unreasonable I would be fuming if someone sold my things that were 'loaned' along with the horse essentially, bad morals its polite to check, but this person clearly isnt bothered about upsetting peoples feelings hence being blocked in these groups. Loan 5 years or not its your horse don't be pushed over by this opinionated lady and do whats right for you

I mean it’s either theft or defrauding someone. I’ve only just found the posts but the stuff was sold around 6m ago. At the time she was fretting about finances - so I can imagine her saying that was why. We all have to manage our finances though and she’s not short of money just doesn’t like spending it.

I was umming and ahhing whether to mention I’d seen it in the interim whilst we make arrangements at home. But know she will just rattle off justifications and talk down to me. She was incredibly offensive recently on social media and I don’t think she knew friends etc (who would have been offended, me included) could see. For the first time I called her out and just said “your posts are offensive - maybe consider who can see them” and she sent me a tirade of messages basically telling me to get a grip and justifying herself, she was being vilified by other people who were outraged too but she’s like a bulldog with a wasp! Deeply unpleasant woman.

I've met exactly this type at previous yards, I stay at a distance as have a tendency to people please. It can be hard to find nice loan homes for light work, but if you want your horse back make the arrangements, then inform her and perhaps contact the yard owner if possible so they are aware of the situation if they are being difficult - move swiftly with a nice transporter for back up. No reason required, even nice loaners lose their loan horses its just a fact of horse loaning. Though arguably the selling of stuff is reason enough.. as its pretty untrustworthy behaviour. Get the horse back first if this is what you intend then send a bill when horse is back for the missing stuff

Thanks @LostRider I am anxious about the whole situation - throughout our entire loan arrangement I have had to tread carefully as not long after she had him she did something quite inappropriate and I had to address it - I only found out when I visited and I quickly realised that if I got her back up I’d just be shut out.

I think she thought at the outset that she could offer me a decent sum and I’d sell, which I didn’t and she has told me since she never wanted to loan.

I think that’s why she’s said my kids can’t come as she knows it’s a barrier to me visiting. I’ve only ever bought one and they’ve either been a babe in arms or a school aged child who was promised a toy if she behaved (and she was impeccably behaved!!)

It’s so fraught!

I am rambling now, but appreciate yours and everyone’s views.

It could be a blessing in disguise, in a way. When the time comes to take him back, you can remind her of all the other bits and pieces if there’s the slightest hint of resistance or objection on her part regarding the horse.
You won’t get your stuff back, but it will certainly change the focus of the conversation, and you might make a smoother exit.

And if you want, you could always follow up afterwards by billing for those items, after you’ve secured your horse which is most important to you.

@ZestofCoffee there is no justification for selling your horses stuff , if she was struggling financially she could have asked you to take him back , she can’t sell his stuff and say it was either do that or the horse would have to go . I agree with a pp though that it would be best to get him back and then send a list of what is missing and say you will be back to collect it on X day , don’t let her know that you have seen things for sale .

I think for OP as she sadly has to deal with this woman if she wants her horse back and any money from items sold then I’d be civil but direct and firm as OP has been.

I’ve ridden from 7-12 years old and on and off since with friends and relatives and yes have met people like this woman. Basically just treat them similarly to how they treat you but don’t be told to “get a grip” and if she justifies herself then consider your points. Threaten her with small claims court or a solicitors letter. They’re basically bullies who think they can bluster their way through things but often back down when tackled properly. And afterwards warn as many people as you can about her in a polite way (they probably know already anyway).

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain she is 100% an awful bully, I have a fantastic network of horsey friendships I’ve maintained 20+ years. She has almost nobody. I see her pick people up, abuse them and then slate them. She just cannot see anyone else’s POV and talks to people so awfully. She is a bitter woman who is very very isolated… sigh! She has been asked to leave riding clubs too…

If I mentioned her name (I wont) I bet if someone was local they’d know her!

Now im justifying my actions to myself 😂