Should I still ride her?

[Unicorn34]

I'll try to add all points straight away and not drip feed - I need a bit of friendly advice about the horse I have been sharing for 6+ years. Some facts for assistance:

• Been sharing 21yr old 15.3hh TBx (ex trotter) mare for 6+ years - 3 times a week
• I am 56 yrs old, riding since 5 yrs old and not inexperienced, unfortunately 14 stone and 5ft2ins - I won't ask for weight loss tips on here!
• Owner lives abroad for last few months, is still quite involved via messaging etc.
• Other 4 days are covered by ladies who are already horse owners at the yard

Question 1: A few weeks ago I tacked her up - usual issues - she sees the saddle and looks like a dragon (typical mare) - hates having a saddle put on and blows out so you cannot do up the girth. Got all done dodging the bitey face and full force used on the girth! Went to leave the yard and another horse was playing up so she became anxious/excited and started spinning. Managed to stop her and we went out (with one other) for a bit of road riding. All OK. However, I have been wondering whether she hates being tacked up as it could hurt? She had an injury back in the trotting days that caused her hip to be injured and wondering whether this is why, her back isn't a good shape either. Saddle was bought "off the peg" and not fitted by a saddler, plus me being a bit on the big side could all equate to pain? Would she act like this if it was pain related? Or is she just being a mare?

Do I still ride her or get the saddle checked out first? She is OK once I'm on but she isn't a calm ride, never has been, and I worry that she just doesn't like being ridden. Owner claims she "loves it" - I beg to differ.

Question 2: So dragon-face is always hangry when I get her in, stamping and pretending that she is going to bite me - she never has and I just tell her to get over herself, a bit of a smack on the shoulder when she oversteps the mark. Heard yesterday that "she never does this" when the others bring her in and that "she is an angel". Makes me feel shite and now I think she doesn't like me any more. When I was poo picking the other day she came over for a cuddle and we had our heads together. I love her so much, but am now thinking that maybe I am not her favourite person. As I said before, I have been sharing her for 6+ years and would still continue to share even if I couldn't ride her as I love her so much.

If we have cuddles when she is calm (not hungry) then does she like/trust me? Is she only playing up as she trusts me and knows me so well? What do others think? She is a typical mare and her moods are all over the place.

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place really. I won't give up my share until the owner is back as it will cause problems (not so much for the owner but the horse) and I still enjoy the yard duties. But do I stop riding, maybe use it as a reason to lose weight? Does she still like me? I know it sounds childish but if she is stamping and pretending she is going to bite me (I know she has done this with the owner and another lady who knows her well) but she doesn't do it with the others who now help, does this mean I need to back off or am doing something wrong? She is definitely hungry as there is no grass at the moment.

My horse share is my Prozac - I am a carer and have MH issues myself so would really miss not seeing her. Love her to bits but know she is not mine. Any helpful suggestions/thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks

I would get the saddle checked. The most obvious one is it needs re stuffing which hard,y anyone seems to get done but does make a difference.
is the saddle cloth and girth clean as mud and dried sweat will make it uncomfortable?
I used to use an easy on type girth that didn’t suddenly go tight.
It could be more serious but it’s worth checking the tack first.

Thanks for the reply. Her saddle is quite new. Everything is clean. I use a saddle pad too

Get saddle and back checked.

If all ok then accept that she is a grumpy witch. I speak from experience of an Irish TB mare.

Saddle and back checked and I am sorry but yes, lose weight too. I do appreciate that's easier said than done :(

Yep to saddle check, but tbh she sounds fairly typical of moody mare! Don't listen to anyone else on the yard, the horse world is pull of people more than happy to piss on your chips.
She should carry your weight fine.

If she’s 21 and high % TB she’s probably lost/losing a bit of top line so saddle check is definitely first priority. It’s always a risk not using a reputable saddle fitter.

Do you know what she weighs, and are you confident you’re within the “20% body weight” guideline? If not, a break from riding might be sensible until you’ve had a chance to get nearer your target weight.

If a horse is girthy I'd immediately be concerned about ulcers. Has she been scoped?

She doesn't sound like a witchy/evil mare to me, she sounds uncomfortable somewhere. TBs are terribly prone to ulcers (the 'hanger' would fit this picture, horses' stomachs are designed to be near-constantly eating, it can literally physically hurt them to not eat), the saddle hasn't been properly fitted, previous injury, funny shaped back - it's all adding up to the likelihood of something physical which she's trying to tell you about in the only way she knows how. Plus I'm afraid it does sound as though you might be a tad too heavy to be riding her regularly (sorry!) - the 20% 'rule' is really a limit not a target, and it should include all your clothes, tack and helmet etc as well as just you and as a TB/trotter type with poor confirmation she's not really best placed to be a weight carrier - you'd likely be absolutely fine on a bigger/stronger hunter type so no shrieky judgement from me here but probably a good idea to stop riding the mare for a while either way, if owner is prepared to do all the vet/physio/saddler checks and she gets the all-clear then maybe consider restarting - although I would personally get a weight tape on her for an accurate picture of her weight then weight yourself fully clothed and holding her saddle, I'd aim to be no more than 15% of her weight personally as she may not be super strong through the back. If owner won't do all that I think at 21 she's maybe earned a quieter life anyway, 21 is not a bad age for a TB to stay in ridden work esp as she's had problems (I know, I know, plenty of horses go on well into their 30s etc etc but IME TBs on the whole are more fragile). Please don't worry yourself about yard tittle tattle or whether she likes you or not (horses really don't think that way anyway), she clearly does trust you, more so perhaps than the others who may be more robust in their handling (she may be scared of being walloped for pulling faces, horses can mask this kind of behaviour through fear, it's a very natural thing) - the important thing though is to put her first at this point and eliminate any physical cause of the behaviour before you treat it as just naughtiness/work evasion. Doesn't mean you can't correct her if she goes to bite or tow you around of course, even if it is a pain reaction you and she need to be safe while you work out what's going on...

@maxelly thank you. Lots of helpful comments. My own gut is telling me not to ride, I'll do anything that's best for her.

Good advice from maxelly.
One of the mares at ours is like yours around food!
I'm carrying a bit of extra weight myself at the moment so thanks for the post as just ran my numbers including tack and I come in at 14.9% at 550kg so I've not got much wiggle room. Mine is half Tb too but has an old tendon injury so 15% would be the most i'd have on him.

You need to look at your weight I'm afraid. For welfare reasons it should be no more than 15% of the horse's bodyweight. TBs aren't weight carriers and my 16.2hh TB weight 600kg. I weigh 10 stone and would never ask him to carry heavier than that as you also have to add 1.5 stone on for tack.
What you are describing are classic ulcer symptoms eg girthy etc so you need vet advice.
Plus saddle doesn't fit by the sounds of it.
All of the above are a recipe for the horse to say "fuck off" but put them together and I can understand why she is grumpy.
They only way that they communicate with us is through body language so you have to get everything physical checked out by professionals:
Vet for ovaries + potential scoping
Saddle fitter
Physio for muscle soreness
Then I'm afraid I think you should seriously look at your own weight and how this affects the horse
Only when all of the have have been ruled out that you can say she is just being mareish.
Horses are only very rarely "naughty", 9 times out of 10 it is pain related.

Thanks everyone, you're all conforming my own gut feeling. I agree she is communicating how she feels. I just love being around her, riding is down the list of priorities for me. I will see if someone can help me weigh her first and check the fit of the saddle.

*confirming

Far too many people are far to quick to dismiss mares as witchy.
Nearly all the “witchy” mares I’ve met when they’ve finally been scoped after years of trying to make it very obvious to their owners they are in agony turn out to have KS or ulcers, and your post screams ulcery to me.

Also being brutally honest, at 14st + your gear and a saddle you are likely too heavy

@Lastqueenofscotland2 yep or ovary issues which can be treated.

Back check, saddle check, ulcer check. All sounds horribly familiar I'm afraid. Off the peg saddles might fit if you're lucky but honestly I would NEVER use a saddle that hadn't been given the all-clear by a reliable, recommended and professional saddle fitter. Badly fitting saddles can do serious damage but some horses just push through the discomfort until something serious happens.

Ditto back check/ulcers. She sounds as though she's in discomfort. I have paid thousands to saddle fitters, physios and vets - worth every penny to know that I am not causing my precious horses pain and discomfort. Ulcers are very treatable. Physios can do wonders. A reputable saddle fitter will tell you if the saddle doesn't fit properly and can advise.

I can't afford to pay out for saddle fitters so would prefer to not ride - I'm planning to do some lunging so her fitness level is the same and we continue to work together. I've got a weight tape to use so will check hers and my weight ASAP and will mention ulcers to her owner as we used to give pink powder about 3 years ago, not sure why we stopped. Had a cuddle in the field today which was nice. Asked the yard owner if she can check the saddle fit with me and we have planned to do it this weekend.

Also looking at my Pinch of Nom books... diet time

Sorry but only a professional saddle fitter should advise on saddle fit.
Ulcers need scoping in order to treat them and with a mare I would want ovaries checking too. These can only be done by a vet.
I get that you say you can't afford a saddle fitter but trying to save money can result in welfare issues for your horse. Horses aren't cheap and the cost of professional help should always be factored into the affordability.
Not treating things won't make them go away and your mare is trying to tell you that she is in pain.
Lunging a horse with potential ulcers WILL still cause her pain and lunging isnt great for skeleton or tendons either. Long reining in walk is much more beneficial but honestly keeping her fitness up should be the last priority until you have had her thoroughly checked out.

The owner needs to step up big time here!

I agree that this is a pain reaction. A saddle which hasn’t been fitted to her is unlikely to fit properly so may have caused discomfort over time. The symptoms do sound typical of ulcers otherwise. Interesting that you had a reaction when the other horse misbehaved. This would have released adrenaline in her which in turn would cause an acid splash in her stomach. If ulcers are present this would hurt, hence the spinning etc.
Hope you can get it resolved for both your sakes.

My girl is a saint. When I bough t her she blew out so much I struggled to fasten the girth. Within a couple of weeks of a new saddle she stopped, so yes check saddle and back.

Is she in season? Mine is touchy as hell about her belly when in season. Will kick or bite me depending on where I'm standing whilst trying to put fly gel on her belly 😬 She must be really uncomfortable, I give her the benefit of the doubt and try to leave her alone.

I think without seeing you ride it isn't possible to say whether you're too heavy. You're definitely at the top of acceptable.

I'd definitely suspect saddle from what you are saying, which may also mean she'll need time to recover from whatever damage it has caused.

@twistyizzy Sorry but only a professional saddle fitter should advise on saddle fit. Ulcers need scoping in order to treat them and with a mare I would want ovaries checking too. These can only be done by a vet.

But as the OP isn't the owner, can she really go ahead with medical investigations the owner hasn't approved?

Which is why I said the owner needs to step up!

Physio then vet/saddle fitter

Getting a qualified professional to check the saddle isn't that expensive. It gets expensive when your saddle doesn't fit and you have to buy a new one! But it might be worth (if you can afford it) to at least get a professional qualified fitter to look at your current one and let you know our way or the other and what the options are.

Get a recommendation and give someone a call and ask how much to get a check and go from there.

Well, no.

She could have ulcers, especially with her hating the girth. She could be sore from arthritis or kissing spines.

She needs a proper check up and professional saddle fitting before being written off as a "grumpy witch".