Advice please: first vs second pony?

[Deliaskis]

Hi folks, hoping for a bit a advice from those in the know. Just thinking about a pony for DD (10)... when I look at ads many of them seem to state 'ideal first pony' or 'second pony'... often staying they are absolutely NOT a first pony. I find this hard to decipher.

DD has been riding a while, lessons once a week until this time last year then riding at least three times a week since then. We've been loaning 2-3 days a week since the start of lockdown 1, so she is comfortable with the stable management side of things.

She's been out on her loan pony around fun rides, farm rides, showjumping course practice a few times at a bigger equestrian centre, cross country schooling and cross country days out, and scores high 60s in an intro dressage test.

We're looking for something to take her a bit further....a few more competitions now things are opening up, and she really loves cross country.

Am I looking for a first pony or a second pony? It would be her first actual pony and I'm wary of over-horsing her because until literally 2 weeks ago I would have said she gets confidence from her pony rather than other way around, but equally we don't want a kick along, because we could stick with her riding school loan for that. My reason for considering moving out of that arrangement is the freedom and liberty to do what we want when we want to.

Any thoughts?

It sounds very much like your daughter needs a first pony- please don’t get her a second pony and very definitely not anything that says absolutely not a first pony- they won’t suit your daughter at all.
Something that will be steady xc for someone that has previously shared a riding school pony (and had a confidence wobble) will be worth its weight in gold so I hope you have a good budget! But please don’t go for a second pony- part (or even full) loaning a riding school horse is not nearly the same and the transition to a super first pony will be a big enough deal on its own!

I’d suggest a ‘second pony’ is probably cheeky and tries to push his luck and do naughty things, and therefore needs a quick rider to immediately keep him in hand before he escalates.

A bold naughty pony and an inexperienced rider are a bad combo and can ruin the riders self confidence in a matter of days. If your loan pony is a school pony it will be different to an own pony.

You want something quiet, obedient, fun and well behaved. You don’t need a bomb waiting to explode once it realised the rider isn’t hard enough.

Get a first pony if you can. Good luck. The right pony will be amazing for your dc.

In my experience second pony is a euphemism for a bit fuzzy/feisty/forward. It’s the child’s term for “not novice ride” and usually they’ve been owned by teenagers who have hopelessly outgrown them and therefore have got used to a better rider.
Anything that says “definitely not a first pony” is a euphemism for what would be called sharp/quirky on a bigger animal and will likely be a very challenging ride.

Honestly get a first pony. Confidence is hard to win and easy to lose and it sounds like shes only just got there with it.
In real terms just as shes been out and about it doesn’t mean she’s not still novice especially if she’s been riding quiet ponies.
I’d so much rather see a child be slightly under horsed than on something they are losing their confidence with because they are overhorsed.

Also if the loan is a riding school pony you will likely find even a typical first pony is MUCH more forward and will likely be a big challenge in any case

Personally I’d avoid anything labelled first or second pony and just look for a good all rounder. First ponies are probably hard work and second ponies usually have quirks. Since my son had his first pony at around six years old I’ve just bought nice ponies. Not advertised as first or second. Just good all rounders. And I’ve never advertised when I’ve sold as first or second.

Just to echo all the previous posters saying stick to a first pony: this post in particular sums it up:
I’d so much rather see a child be slightly under horsed than on something they are losing their confidence with because they are overhorsed

Better for your daughter to outgrow something in 18months time (I mean not physically, but because she’s capable & confident of a more go-ey pony) than take that step too soon.

Out of interest OP, would said pony be small enough for you to jump on if you have trouble with it, and are you a capable rider?

My second pony was bought knowing it had a wicked buck (it bucked me off along when we tried it - I don’t know what my mother was thinking). But because she was small enough to get on it when it was naughty, we soon sorted him out. He was a fabulous pony and we would never have been able to afford him if he’d been well mannered at the outset. But it would also have been an unmitigated disaster if mum hadn’t been able to jump on in those moments when I was having trouble.

Thanks folks, that sounds almost unanimous, which is actually incredibly helpful! I think this was probably the direction I was going but it's helpful to hear perspectives. The loans have been a couple of different riding school ponies and she does ride the youngsters before they're allowed in the riding school properly, so she's OK with green and inexperienced, and somewhat fizzy/ forward, but I'd hate her first own pony to feel like a daunting ride for her. So I'll keep my searches for first ponies at this stage. I mostly wanted to instance the terminology because I could go and see a few but don't want to be accused of being a timewaster #theshame.

I'm capable but couldn't get on if it was causing a problem cos I'd be too heavy, but there are plenty of dinky adults and teens at the yard who could.

Thanks again, this has been really helpful.

@m00rfarm

Personally I’d avoid anything labelled first or second pony and just look for a good all rounder. First ponies are probably hard work and second ponies usually have quirks. Since my son had his first pony at around six years old I’ve just bought nice ponies. Not advertised as first or second. Just good all rounders. And I’ve never advertised when I’ve sold as first or second.

Interesting point.... that's what we're really looking for, a good all rounder. Just not one that terrifies her! Like I said above I'd like to get out and see a few but don't want to waste people's time so wanted to at least get in the right ballpark first.

That’s a good point about adults being able to get on and sort out naughty ponies.

If you can, keep in touch with girls who are excellent little riders or a lightweight adult at the riding school.

You never know when you may need a little ha s with something!

Hand

Doing more searching this morning, it's slightly disheartening. I can only assume first ponies are not ever sold! Everything that I can see is either LR/first pony (and we're a long way from that), or just really small sub 13hh. DD is a slim but tall ish 10yo and so we really would be looking for something that will last her at least a couple of years without her feet touching the floor. I think this is what prompted me to ask the question... as all the first ponies I have seen whilst looking in the past few weeks have been unsuitable either size wise or clearly more LR and very early ridden.

I can see this is going to be a holy grail type hunt! Still, it will be worth it in the end.

I reiterate stop looking for first ponies and look for a good and kind all rounder.

I agree that you want a good all rounder. If an advert says first or second pony, I’d be wary. A first pony could be ideal for your daughter but also might be older or less inclined to do the fun stuff she enjoys. Whereas a second pony implies that it’s likely to have various traits that might stop it being a safe and confidence building ride. The pony you are looking for doesn’t need to come with either of these warnings.

My friend is selling a 13hh first pony, in the NW

OP part of the problem is the r era lot good ponies don’t actually get advertised - they are sold by word of mouth, and pass from one family to the next. Are you in your local pony club? If so speak to your DC and say what you’re looking for; or think of another way to get the word out locally what you are looking for.

Yes good ponies are very rarely advertised, they tend to have waiting lists at pony clubs etc! I’d get on to your DC at your local pony club and see if they know of anything
The issue with looking for something a bit bigger also is you are competing with the small adult market as well

Looking on horsequest I would go to the family friends section. I have seen two likely ones in the first 15 ads. I would not go for anything under 7 years old. I quite liked the look of Walter the coloured 140cm pony

Go ask your local pony club DC - say you're looking for one and your daughter is keen to join (which I'd highly recommend anyway), and the DC will generally know which ponies are looking for their next rider and hopefully put you in touch with a suitable one.

Thanks folks, this has been really helpful, and I've found a new section on horsequest that I had missed before so thank you for that.

I would echo everyone's recommendations to look for a good gentle allrounder. They are quite hard to find, don't be tempted to buy the very first one you see (unless it is a true unicorn!) The really genuine ones rarely come onto the market - a good allrounder used to carrying novice children that is in a pony club will almost certainly have a waiting list. Having said that, don't be discouraged - they are out there, you just have to winkle them out! My son currently rides a former riding school pony who is an absolute saint of a pony. He is never going to win a speed class, but he is kind and will give everything a go, and really tries to look after his little riders.

When people talk of a first pony, they are usually talking about an ancient 11hh furball on legs which barely moves - you could light a firework under them and they would barely blink. Their best pace is stationary and they don't move a muscle when a horde of tiny children climb up their legs and sit on them bareback in the field. This is the sort of pony an experienced horsey parent would buy for their 3 yo DCs, they often become family heirlooms.

After this first pony, a child would either move onto a slightly bigger first pony if they are not ready for something that moves of it's own accord, or they get a second pony. In horsey families, the second pony is often ridden alongside the first pony, while the child build's their confidence. The second pony will feel a bit like sitting on a rocket compared to the first pony for a child. They move on their own, and sometimes have cheeky streaks in them. A child that has been used to riding school ponies could well have the pants scared off them by a second pony type - it will certainly be more than they have experienced before!

'NOT a first pony' is a warning that this pony may look cute but will either take off with your child, or buck them off, or possibly eat them when being handled on the ground. I sold a pony once which I labelled 'Not a first pony.' He was beautiful, cute, capable, and utterly clueless - he was kind and would respond to instructions, but the child had to know how to give those instructions and most kids are just not quick enough to ask correctly for the right action from a pony or to nip bad habits in the bud, and this sort of pony can quickly become difficult to manage.

Be aware that if your child can manage all the ponies in the riding school, this does not mean she/he will have experience of all the things a pony can actually do. Riding schools tend to buy very safe ponies and then school them well. A pony which has been privately owned may well have a lot of different uncorrected habits! As others have stated, it is far better to underhorse a beginner child than to overhorse them. I have underhorsed both of my children, and have no regrets. DD jumped her 15hher round an 80cm XC course at the weekend and I was really pleased with how she went. Far better to keep them interested - they end up at the same point in the long run.

Does your daughter belong to pony club @Deliaskis , if not join and someone there may be able to put you on to something appropriate .

She's not in pony club yet. Partly because no pony! It's a bit difficult because the only one nearby is a centre (for non owners) at a different riding school, so we would need to leave where we are (and where our loans are and my new horse share is) to establish ourselves there. We're very embedded where we are for lots of reasons and have had some great opportunities, so will have to leave PC membership until we have a pony and can get independently to things.

@Deliaskis

She's not in pony club yet. Partly because no pony! It's a bit difficult because the only one nearby is a centre (for non owners) at a different riding school, so we would need to leave where we are (and where our loans are and my new horse share is) to establish ourselves there. We're very embedded where we are for lots of reasons and have had some great opportunities, so will have to leave PC membership until we have a pony and can get independently to things.

Fair enough, it's just a pity as networking at PC is how a lot of the good ponies end up changing hands without ever touching the advertising sites or - heaven forbid - ending up with a dealer! But yeah it's pretty difficult to join an 'own pony' branch without access to a pony, unless you can 'borrow' your riding school loan pony and transport to rallies, but understand that will probably be ££££.

Have you joined all your local and neighbouring area horsey facebook groups, you do see a lot of adverts on there (plenty of dodgy ones but also I'm sure the odd gem)? Have you tried a wanted post (you will probably have to filter lots of unsuitable replies but might undercover something?).

Also can you enlist your instructor/yard owner's help in the search, s/he will probably have a better network of horsey/pony contacts than you and it is presumably in their interests to help you find a pony if that means you'll be paying increased livery costs etc? Where do they source their ponies for the school, any chance of finding something suitable that way? You'd want to be very careful of taking a pony that has previously been a school pony and transitioning into private ownership of course as they can undergo total personality transplants but you might uncover something all the same. Potentially if you offer a 'finders fee' your instructor might take on the search for you, or know someone reputable/experienced that will? My friend that is a YO/instructor will source the pony, accompany at all viewings and generally act as the middle man for his clients (and deal with taking the pony back/selling on again if it doesn't work out) for a 15% finders fee, mainly TBF this is for BSJA ponies worth well into 5 figures to be worth his while, but with the market the way it is this kind of arrangement may become more viable for 'ordinary' family ponies, worth asking about anyway?

Thanks @maxelly , some more interesting thoughts there. Our riding school are a bit unusual I think as they buy a lot of youngsters, spend quite a bit of time bringing them on, then when suitable, put them in the riding school for a couple of years, and then sell on so none of them are stuck there their whole lives. So I probably wouldn't buy for DD through their route, and there's nothing suitable to buy from them at the moment (reduced stock at start of first lockdown and now bringing on other youngsters just about to enter riding school).... But yes, for sure Manager has her eyes out for anything suitable, and will probably come with us to view, along with a very small light adult instructor for trying. So we're well supported in that respect. There is another person at the yard who does operate sales livery but all of her prospects are either much bigger or again very young.

So....the hunt is on, and hopefully we'll get there in the end!

You don't have to leave your riding school to join a branch of the pony club. What area are you in? There should be a nearby branch holding rallies regularly.

WRT first/second pony. This is really subjective. Id consider a first pony to be a really safe, reliable kick along. A second pony, to be one that is more forward, and with more ability. Sone people though, will say second pony, when they mean naughty/nappy/whizzy.

Its very tricky as you don't want her to lose confidence, equally you don't want her to outgrow the pony ability wise after 6 months