A few questions - having a crisis!

[NagNagN4g]

I won’t bore you all with the ins and outs but I’m having a massive crisis in my confidence at the moment. There’s a few factors going on... being bullied into doing things I don’t want to do, my horse playing up when doing these things and me now not wanting to ride him.

He’s a rescue cob, a very green 6/7 year old (I didn’t know he was a rescue when I bought him, or just how far behind he was in his education).

So, he’s started bucking when asking for canter (no biggie, I get on with it but it does make me a bit tense)

He’s bolted in an open field (a proper bolt, not a few strides of excitement)

He’s reared and bronced when a horse we were with went out of sight

He’s very forward going, and at the moment I don’t feel safe on him at all.

My first question is, can ridden behaviour change when his field set up has changed? He’s a very very playful, young thing and loves a good run around with his mates. Unfortunately a new horse came and he turned on him (very out of character, but there’s one mare and 3 geldings and I think he was protecting the mare). So he was taken and put on his own where he’s been for 2 months. I think he’s going stir crazy, and all these ridden behaviours have been since then. I could be completely wrong but he just seems more playful when out hacking as he doesn’t get that out in the field. Am I way off the mark? When my kids run up and down along his fence line he goes nuts, running alongside them, farting, throwing himself around and gets very excited by them!! He didn’t used to do this when he was with the herd.

I broke down on my instructor the other day and it’s caused a shit storm at my yard for various reasons. It’s a very small yard, the lady who runs it is very opinionated, bitchy and two faced. My problem is me being a pleaser, I’ve always gone along with her as I’ve heard how she slags off the other liveries, and I didn’t want to be spoken about like that, so I went along with things and have now got myself in a mess! And it’s worse than ever!!

Ok OP, quite defensive are we? Good luck with the new place. Hopefully if you get a bit more confident everything will improve.

@Fibbke I didn't see OP's response as defensive at all actually. I think she's agreeing the yard could well be the issue and is hoping the one she's found is affordable? I think for anyone with experience with horses and asking for advice it can be very overwhelming. Us horsey folk love to give it and it's hard to take from strangers sometimes.

Good luck OP. I'm quite a hippy with my TB these days so stuff I do isn't everyone's cup of tea but he's taught me a lot and it's lovely not to get the "bronky bronky" anymore

No I’m not being defensive at all, I don’t have much to be defensive about! I just said that whilst individual turnout is ok for some, it isn’t for others including my own.

He long reins beautifully and listens fully to my voice, it was a pleasure doing it today with him.

The lunging is another story altogether. When I viewed him I asked to see him lunged, he went round once on each rein in trot and that was it. I stupidly didn’t ask for any more.

I used to lunge him twice a week when I bought him, it became obvious that he had no idea what he was doing, so I taught him nice calm transitions and he was doing really well. I then moved to this yard and when I lunged him for the first time he pissed off as the horses in the field next door were having a run around and he went to join them. I physically couldn’t hold him after skiing for a few metres so let go! I got him back and made him walk, trot and canter on each rein and left it at that on a good note.

Then the yard manager asked me how it went, I laughed and said fine but he pissed off and explained what happened. She said oh dear, next time you lunge I’ll give you a hand. Ok says I naively. The next week I went to lunge again, she criticised every single thing I did. The way I was standing, the way I was talking, and took over without giving me a choice (she’s never constructive with her criticism). Told me he pissed off because I was giving him the wrong aids and doing it all wrong. YM is very abrupt, she lunged him and he turned into a bucking bronco, he needs to be handled very firmly but sensitively. She’s firm but horrible with it. And so has led to our downward spiral with lunging. I haven’t lunged him myself since then due to my insecurities and being judged and told I’m doing it wrong. She completely took over. She’s very overbearing and me being non confrontational and quite quiet, couldn’t bring myself to say anything otherwise.

I used to lunge in bridle and clip the lunge line on the outside and pass it through. With no other gadgets, and he was fine.

I’m not going to tell you what she used to lunge him as I’m angry at myself for not telling her no, I don’t like you doing it that way.

As an aside, every time I got on to ride she would crank up my noseband and flash a hole so it was stupidly tight. I like it to be as it’s supposed to be. I don’t even like flashes, but she told me he has to be ridden in one.

Why the fuck am I so weak

I can’t use a lunge whip with him, if he even catches sight of one on the yard he breaks free in a panic. Although saying that, he hasn’t done it for a while!

I don’t know where he was rescued from, I just know his appalling history from his previous owners.

I agree him being a tit on the lunge could be pain related, but I feel like I need to be in the correct environment to work out what’s going on, if that makes sense?

I’m going back to basics with him completely, lots of long reining, working on the lunge and walking and trotting. As well as speaking to my vet.

He can work beautifully from behind, just every now and then he goes on the forehand and leans. He used to do it constantly, but with lots of schooling and lessons it’s now only towards the end when he gets tired.

Thanks puppy

I hate myself right now because the more I write, the more I realise how controlling she has been and how I’m in the mess because of her. Every single thing I did was wrong. What I fed, how much I fed, what tack I used (I wanted to try a string girth... oh no they’re old school and pointless, I wanted to try a Micklem... urgh they’re horrid things, I wanted to try a drop nose band... why would I do that, etc etc). If I bought anything new for him she’d ask me why I got it, if I tried out a new feed, she’d ask me why. If he muzzled my hood fur in an affectionate way she’d tell me he was walking all over me and I need to stop him doing it, if he rubs his face on me after I’ve taken his bridle off, he’s being over bearing and rude (no he’s sweating and has a fucking itch), if I use a certain shampoo, it’s the wrong one. She clipped his feathers off as I stood there and fucking watched. I said I might try some local fun showing, urgh I’d have to grow his feathers back and his mane, why would I do that. Every single fucking day .

And the best one so far, my instructor saying we could make it elementary dressage if I put in the work and continue as we are, in a few years time. She overhead and afterwards said it was a joke, he’d never be able to do that and don’t go thinking we’d get that far. I literally bit my tongue to stop myself crying. We honestly have come on so far together and we’re a good team, just this woman has ground me down into nothing and made me scared of my horse who in turn has become scared of life .

What a mess

Imagine if this was someone telling you to corset your child or yelled at them? You'd remove them. So many yard owners are on a ridiculous power trip, it takes a PhD virtually to find someone responsible and firm but sensitive and understanding. Your horse trusts you to make good decisions so trust yourself

Everything crossed this other yard works out. I'm getting upset on your behalf OP as I've watched my boy be lunged in a gadget I wasn't sure about. I knew it wasn't right the minute she started. I told her "he's got sad ears, he hates it." I was told I was being ridiculous and those were "listening ears."

Luckily I sent my physio some video and she told me to stop using the gadget straight away so I used that as my rationale. It's so hard.

Thank you, I appreciate it. And yes you’re right, I wouldn’t allow anyone to do that to my kids, why is my horse any different? I feel so guilty for putting him in these situations. I have visions of him rearing and the rope she tied over his nose for “control” getting tighter and tighter so he was snorting. I said as much and she said if it was cutting off his airways he’d be making a louder noise than that. Horrific. He was rearing in a panic with her torture device (well, homemade device). My poor baby.

When I did challenge her over anything she had an answer for everything. It’s certainly her way or the highway.

Interestingly she’s now coupled up with another girl, texting her at all hours like she used to with me, going out on hacks with her, laughing and joking with her. Yet this girl she has bitched about, moaned about, threatened to throw off the yard because she didn’t take her advice etc. But now they’re best mates. At least it takes the pressure off me!!

Enjoy the reduced scrutiny! She sounds difficult. And keep scouting for a better place to move him to. It might be the best decision you ever make for him

I've been watching this thread and debating whether to post but a glass of wine has given me confidence. First things first, absolutely do whatever you need to do to move yards - nothing will improve until you get away from that toxic environment. But after that - slow the fuck down! You're not aiming for the Olympics so take the pressure off yourself (and more importantly your horse) until you get to know him. He's an adolescent who's been moved, pushed, prodded, worked, had every type of tack foisted on him and probably has no idea what the fuck is going on. Just forget everything other than you and your horse - play with him in the field and in the school, take him for walks, interact at his level rather than from on his back. Talk to him, and listen to him. I only get glimpses from your posts that you even like him. If all this sounds ridiculously woo-woo, get Ben Hart in to help you, or at least watch his videos.

I'm not a horse expert by any means but I do have 6 of my own at home and I know them all inside out. There are no shortcuts to building a relationship but if you take a deep breath, sort out a better place for you both to enjoy you WILL reap the rewards.

Good luck.

Agree with all of this👇🏼

Ben Hart is awesome.

I hate myself right now because the more I write, the more I realise how controlling she has been and how I’m in the mess because of her.

Don't hate yourself OP. Be a bit kind to yourself. You made mistakes, we all do it. You've realised now and can get away from her. I had my horse on a yard with someone similarly bullying, although fortunately more knowledgeable. She was still wrong about many things and there are so many things she did with my horse that I will never allow anyone to do again.

He long reins beautifully and listens fully to my voice, it was a pleasure doing it today with him.

If he's been driven and long reined he may just find lunging odd. When things have calmed down and you're back on track, try lunging with two lunge lines. So if you're long reining with a roller, use the roller on the far side lunge line but not the near side. He may find it clearer being lunged with two lines if he's used to long reining. But no, don't try this until you're sorted with a new yard.

Your yard owner is awful. Be careful when you go. I would give payment in lieu of notice. Just find a new yard, get a date sorted. Turn up with a horse box, load up and go. Do not leave your horse there unattended once she knows you're going. Fuck knows what she'll get up to.

@Sarahlou63 you've inspired me to admit I spent two whole hours standing in the arena with my horse this afternoon. Moved his feet a bit, listened to the birds, breathed, watched him lick and chew, blow out and relax until he was so chilled he didn't even react when I did spontaneous star jumps and threw a lunge line over his back. And then I turned him out again

I spent a happy 10 minutes this morning doing some liberty work. I figure if my horse will follow me with no lead rope or reins in walk, trot and halt transitions and changes of direction she'll be much more likely to know what I mean when I'm on board. Seems to be working so far. We're very much in tune with each other. I only do it in short bursts because we both find it needs a lot of concentration.

Thank you for posting Sarah, I’m glad you did.

I agree with you, I’ve been going at a pace I’m not happy with at all, because she’s pressurised me into it. Yes I could have said no, but I didn’t and I only have myself to blame for that part. She actually said to me he should be jumping 80/90 courses by now. I mean come on! I was too stunned to even respond to that. She said I was putting so much in but not getting out of him which is why I should sell him. I love the absolute bones of him, I know I probably haven’t made that clear cause this is a ranting post. I love the way he recognises my swagger even with my hood up, and comes running to greet me. I love the way he nickers when waiting for his dinner, I love the way he knows me. I just love him.

I’ve gone back to enjoying him this last week, we’ve gone on a few in-hand walks around the block, I’ve groomed him for hours on end, and just spent some quality time with him. Without being told I should be cantering around fields (yes I’ve heard that one too).

I will say the only good thing about individual turn out is being able to play with him properly in the field. I poo pick every day and it can take an hour sometimes I run around and get him to run with me, I talk to him, sing to him and just enjoy his company. I also spend ages rubbing his itchy spots!

I’ve heard of Ben Hart, will look into it, thanks.

Puppy

Thank you Belenus, that thought crossed my mind today about the lunging with two lines actually, it might help with his balance as well. Definitely something to think about for when we’re ready, thank you.

We’re not allowed to lunge in our school, if we do we have to pay £6 for the privilege (is that normal?!), so I don’t think being in a massive field has helped either

She also checks the cctv every day to see who’s done what, who’s been where and sees how long we’ve been talking to each other when she’s not there... and will then ask what we were talking about. It’s all a bit bonkers.

Can I ask as well, is it normal for a DIY yard to literally be 100% that, as in providing own electric fencing, handles etc etc. She goes on about it non stop if we ask to borrow hers, makes us feel guilty when she spends ages cutting the grass on the walkways and when she does general maintenance. Is that our responsibility too? I’ve lost sense of what’s normal. She doesn’t own it, just runs it. If someone pisses her off she’ll go and take anything back of hers they’ve borrowed, even if she’s given it them to borrow. She also goes through people’s stuff being nosey. But if anything of hers has moved an inch she’s scouring that cctv for who it may have been.

Sorry I keep going on, this is proving quite cathartic and I need to get it off my chest. I feel much better already.

She's clearly got a lot of issues. I think having to provide your own fence posts and stuff like that can be normal, but I think with any yard owner, they have to have a set up that works for you. You could be on Carl bloody Hester's yard and still have an unhappy horse or feel like a square peg in a round hole. This is about what works for you and your boy.

It sounds like you adore him and he's just confused and unhappy, possibly lonely. I know mine used to play with me a lot in his field, which I loved. Then he went out with a herd and suddenly wouldn't do it anymore. It's all taken some adjustment but I realised he didn't have any contact with the other horses so was playing with me like a horse. Now the herd takes care of that and I have to concentrate on being a safe space, lots of rewards and just quietly taking charge so he still chooses to spend time with me.

Totally agree with the poster who said, pay in lieu of notice, prove you've done so and then move him out same day.

I love the absolute bones of him

It’s funny you should say that puppy, he plays with me the way he would another horse, and I said as much to my friend a few days ago. And whilst I love it, he should be playing with his own. He loves my kids, I won’t let them in with him but they run up and down his fence line and he chases them bucking and farting with excitement. He loves it. My YM said what he was doing wasn’t playing and that he was being horrible... his ears are pricked and he’s nothing but gentle with my children, he just gets excited when he sees them and likes to play.

I have visions of me leaving there and leaving a note with everything written in it that I know she’s done to hurt me, is that inappropriate? I want her to know I know what she’s been saying about me, but I would never do it if I was staying! But then I feel like I should just move on, block her and forget it all.

She knows a lot of people unfortunately, and has already bitched about me to a famous 5* eventer who we both know, apparently he also said something nasty about me too... but I just know he never would, he’s very professional. I know this because my friend told me YM said to her that this person had said that some people just shouldn’t be riding, and he never said I have soft hands (I have no idea why that would even be brought up, he mentioned to me in a lesson once my hands were very soft, my friend heard it, YM heard it and it’s also on video as it was being recorded). YM seems to have a bee in her bonnet about it and keeps bringing it up (this thread is the first time I’ve ever mentioned it, I never repeat any compliments about me as I don’t like to blow my own trumpet!). But apparently he said to her he never said that. But why would they be talking about it anyway?! I don’t think he did say it and she’s just bitched about me to him . She’s closer to him than me, but if I see him again I’m going to ask him outright if he said it!! She just makes up lies all the bloody time! It’s crazy. I’m tempted to post a photo of my boy, but it’s very outing! So I won’t

But then I feel like I should just move on, block her and forget it all.

Yes, you should. You're giving this person waaaaay too much head space at the moment and she doesn't deserve one iota of your attention once you've left. Can I (kindly!) suggest you put as much effort into finding a better yard for your boy as you do in worrying about 'he said, she said'. It really doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things.

Oh, BTW, I do know about bad YM - when I got my first and then second horses I was on a local yard for 18 months. The atmosphere was dreadful, no one was allowed on the yard after midday (apart from evening feeds and mucking out) and I was offered one cup of tea. Once. In 18 months.

Move. Frankly, it sounds as if the horse is the least of your worries. Your yard sounds like Mean Girls., thoroughly miserable and exhausting. If you want grass livery, have you looked for a field share rather than a yard, as you're DIY anyway? That happens quite a lot around my way and owners rent out a local school by the hour when they want it.

OMG

You are giving this way too much headspace as a pp said.

You need to move for your own sanity never mind the horse!!

I won’t let them in with him but they run up and down his fence line and he chases them bucking and farting with excitement. He loves it. My YM said what he was doing wasn’t playing

Fwiw i agree with her and wouldn't encourage this on a regular basis.

Yes I am giving her too much headspace, but I can’t help it, this kind of stuff makes me ill and I can’t help the way I feel, but I’m using this thread as a venting space, I honestly don’t think about it 24/7, just little snippets come to my head and it annoys the fuck out of me so I write it down here to vent. It might seem like I’m sat here rocking backwards and forwards in the corner, and whilst it’s upsetting me massively it isn’t making me visibly miserable and no one would even know, if that makes sense?!

The running up and down with him has been 3 times in the last 2 months, they hardly ever come with me to the yard, they’re at their dads at the weekend and I go there in the day when they’re at school. So I’m not making a habit out of it don’t worry.

I’d rather not have a field share, given the problems I’ve been having I feel like I need to be on a livery yard rather than going it alone as such.

We have a curfew as well, it doesn’t effect me but it does a few of the others who work. It’s not as mad as 12pm, but is 6pm which when makes it difficult for the people who work late.

I’ve messaged a few yards today so fingers crossed I can view a few soon.

Thank you.

And I’m sorry if anything looks like it has come across as disjointed or defensive as a few of you have said, I’m dyslexic and struggle putting words down on paper so it can come across as being a bit random or rude when it doesn’t meant to be.

Have been through a not-dissimilar situation OP. Yes, the field situation can make a huge difference with behaviour, particularly going from a herd to living solo. Regardless of whether he can see other horses.

It does sound like ‘protest’ separation anxiety behaviour, particularly ‘going nuts’ when the YM rode away from you (very shabby behaviour btw).

The grass probably isn’t helping but sounds like he’s getting a decent amount of work so it shouldn’t produce this level of naughtiness. Ditto bit and bridle - people fixate on this but it really, truly doesn’t make a huge difference unless your hands are utterly brutal.

Tbh, it really does sound like you need to get away from the yard. I wouldn’t fret too much about changing his environment - if you can find a place where he’s happier and can have at least one field mate (easier said than done I know) you might be surprised how well he copes. Certainly in my case, the change was astonishing - in a good way.

And, importantly, you shouldn’t be somewhere where you’re belittled and criticised (MN Tack Room notwithstanding )

Fwiw, you sound like a competent, knowledgeable and caring horse owner from your post. Good luck with it all!

Thank you, that’s really kind of you to say!

I’m moving yards next Monday . I went to view somewhere yesterday. The shit has hit the fan quite spectacularly with YM, and I’ve had to send her a message saying I’m not prepared to engage with her any longer. That didn’t go down well and I ignored 5 calls from her yesterday. She’s livid and told my friend she was giving me my notice to leave immediately... sorry love, I got there first with my 30 days notice She’s unfriended me on Facebook as well... all very childish. I’m keeping a dignified silence. She’s rummaged through my stuff at the yard to take two things back of hers that I borrowed... a bit rude and she’s got more of my stuff than I have of hers

Enough of that situation, I’m not giving it a second thought now

So, he’ll be in with the gelding herd, there’s 30 liveries there and there’s so many facilities it’s unreal!! I’m very excited about moving and looking forward to spending time with my boy without being watched and criticised the whole time. The reviews online are great, a few of them have been there 10 or more years, and quite a lot have been there years. There turnaround isn’t high, and everyone seems chilled. I’m going into this place with my eyes open though!!

I feel like a weight has been lifted and I just feel happy now.

Thank you for all your help

I'm so glad for you that you are moving and can fo things with your boy the way you want to.

Makes me feel extra thankful that our yard owner is just a bloody diamond! She offers advice if asked (and she is very knowledgeable, teaches the pony club kids horse and pony care) and is never judgy if we chose not to take it!

Thank you

Sounds like a lovely yard, and one hopefully similar to the new one I’ll be going to. I have a good feeling about it.

That’s what I was saying to my friend, if I ask for advice, then that’s exactly what it is... advice. My YM tells you what to do and will bitch to everyone else if they don’t do what she says.

It was obviously a bit awkward today, I didn’t even look at her! Cannot wait to move