A few questions - having a crisis!

[NagNagN4g]

I won’t bore you all with the ins and outs but I’m having a massive crisis in my confidence at the moment. There’s a few factors going on... being bullied into doing things I don’t want to do, my horse playing up when doing these things and me now not wanting to ride him.

He’s a rescue cob, a very green 6/7 year old (I didn’t know he was a rescue when I bought him, or just how far behind he was in his education).

So, he’s started bucking when asking for canter (no biggie, I get on with it but it does make me a bit tense)

He’s bolted in an open field (a proper bolt, not a few strides of excitement)

He’s reared and bronced when a horse we were with went out of sight

He’s very forward going, and at the moment I don’t feel safe on him at all.

My first question is, can ridden behaviour change when his field set up has changed? He’s a very very playful, young thing and loves a good run around with his mates. Unfortunately a new horse came and he turned on him (very out of character, but there’s one mare and 3 geldings and I think he was protecting the mare). So he was taken and put on his own where he’s been for 2 months. I think he’s going stir crazy, and all these ridden behaviours have been since then. I could be completely wrong but he just seems more playful when out hacking as he doesn’t get that out in the field. Am I way off the mark? When my kids run up and down along his fence line he goes nuts, running alongside them, farting, throwing himself around and gets very excited by them!! He didn’t used to do this when he was with the herd.

I broke down on my instructor the other day and it’s caused a shit storm at my yard for various reasons. It’s a very small yard, the lady who runs it is very opinionated, bitchy and two faced. My problem is me being a pleaser, I’ve always gone along with her as I’ve heard how she slags off the other liveries, and I didn’t want to be spoken about like that, so I went along with things and have now got myself in a mess! And it’s worse than ever!!

You're clearly very defensive and not reading my posts.

Why are you considering a different bit if his snaffle 'isn't up for question' And you clearly missed the part of poll pressure.

He doesn't need supplements. Waste of money.

I'll leave you to it. Good luck.

Not at all defensive, just outlining some facts.

Because I do dressage and I school in a snaffle, I need something stronger for when hacking.

What part about poll pressure? You said a Pelham wouldn’t be suitable if he doesn’t like poll pressure I just explained that I was trying out different bits to see what worked for him.

That’s a bit rude saying he doesn’t need supplements and it’s a waste of money, that’s your opinion, and mine is that he needs them.

OP do you have options to move to other yards. You're unhappy at this yard and so is your horse. If you have an alternative, even if it's less convienient I suspect you will feel better. It may help you to see the wood for the trees as far as your boy is concerned. It seems you're both coping with a great deal of tension and an unhappy environment.

I definitely think being on his own could be a massive factor in the behavioural problems. I have a young horse who reacts badly to being on his own, as I found out when he had to be in a small paddock alone after a minor injury. All horses need to socialise, but I think some cope without it better than others. Mine went loopy on his own and was a nightmare to deal with, until he went back in the herd and returned to normal.

My strong horse loved his neue schule Cheltenham, in fact he doesn't need it any more but still goes so sweetly in it
I will say cobs often have fat tongues and the bombers happy tongues are ace
I agree a pelham will be useless if he leans.

He sounds green and taking the piss, but your yard set up sounds horrendous. That's what I'd be looking to change first.

He's 6, a cob and a rescue. He needs consistent stress free schooling and no supplements

Sorry, I've re read and the food sounds fine tbh. Do you mean a balancer?

I’ve tried the bombers happy tongue and he hated it! He has a fat tongue and low palette yes. No idea why he didn’t like it, I read a lot about it which is why I trialled it as he seemed the ideal candidate!

His schooling is stress free but makes him think and work him hard, if that makes sense? I don’t push him to do anything he isn’t ready for.

No not balancer, just the thunderbrooks chaff, baileys high fibre complete nuggets and the naf general purpose powder (just vits and minerals). And that’s it. And not a lot of each either. Oh and salt, I add salt too.

Yes I agree, about him being on his own, the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Apparently he should be ok on his own, as her two are and they’re the same age. What utter bollocks, every horse is different and she made me feel guilty for even questioning it.

Interesting about the Cheltenham gag, thanks. Like I said it’s next on my list to try so will give it a go, I don’t hold out much hope with the Pelham either tbh, I feel like it’s more a process of elimination! and the yard manager told me to try it too

Not a lot of options no, I need grass livery as he doesn’t stable very well and has never lived in. He gets stressed and jumps out, although saying that I’ve included that in his groundwork and I can now leave him for an hour in a stable, but I feel it wouldn’t be fair on him to move somewhere and stable him straight away, he definitely wouldn’t cope with that.

Grass livery is like hens teeth around here, there’s 2 within a 10 mile radius of my home. When I was looking to move here I spent 2 solid days driving round every single yard and farm asking if they did grass livery. The other one didn’t have a school and I didn’t really like it!

I've not really read all the other replies but it seems to me that it's entirely possible that your horses behaviour stems from his new field arrangements.
He's been unsettled because of being on his own. His behaviour has become less predictable. This has caused you to become apprehensive on hacks. He has picked up on this and the cycle has got worse.
So, firstly I'd get the turnout situation better for him.
All your other management sounds fine to me, plenty of proper exercise, minimal feed, establishing manners.
Good luck.

Hi,

Sorry my message got away before I could actually write anything. I have a 14-year-old daughter who has an ASD diagnosis and we are having real difficulties with her at school. She has just been excluded for a second time. she is not listening to any of the staff at school and wandering around the school. I believe her anxiety levels are extraordinarily high and I also believe that she has PDA pathological demand avoidance although she does not have a diagnosis for this. I am trying to get her referred to the CAMHS service but cams keep rejecting her. I believe she may need some medication to help her cope with the daily stresses of life but cannot get a prescription for her because only cams can prescribe to children. the school agree with me and the doctor agrees with me that something to help Molly my daughter be less anxious would be helpful for her. has anybody been in this had this problem before and how did you tackle it thank you

Hi CFOR, you've posted your message on a thread about an equine crisis, so I don't think you'll get too many helpful replies! You would be better starting your own thread in SN Chat or Education...

OP, the more you post the more it sounds like you need to sort the turnout situation out and probably this is going to mean changing yards. It sounds a bit as though even if you persuade yard manager to put him back out with the herd, she's going to take him away again at the first sign of trouble and lots of chopping and changing will probably stress him out more. As you say this isn't really the way to a nice stable herd dynamic. Does she follow good practice in introducing new horses to the mix, ie turning them out in adjacent fields first etc.?

Wrt to grass livery, could you see if anywhere will at least offer you 24/7 turnout in summer (most will)? You might then be paying for a stable you don't use and possibly you'll have an issue if there's compulsory bringing in at night over the winter but it would at least give you a short term option?

Thank you Captain. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Maxelly, that was my thinking actually, find somewhere that does 24/7 turnout in summer then between now and winter work on getting him stabled safely, so if I have to stay there over the winter he can go in overnight.

No, she didn’t introduce how I would do it. He was put straight out there with them (no quarantine either ) and when he was put out they had a run around, a bit of squealing but nothing major. Then for some reason she took out the herd leader and put him next to them and the others were quite chilled. Herd leader was put back in after a little while, then they ran around some more, with more squealing. The only mare was then removed and the 3 geldings were left alone and chased a bit but nothing nasty. Then the mare was put back in and that’s when it all went tits up. Mine chased the new gelding through the fence. I wasn’t there at this point so they took mine out where he stayed. My boy has lived successfully in herds his whole life, he’s not aggressive normally and it last or second to last in the peking order. The mare was also in season when all of this happened. The way this was done meant none of them had the chance to settle as everyone was being moved. It was mayhem.

CFOR wrong thread, but in case you come back and read this... ASD is my speciality

Does she have an IEP, SEN plan or EHCP? How do they deal with her at school? They need to make reasonable adjustments for her.

CAMHS won’t medicate unless she has severe anxiety. But you can’t medicate ASD. It just needs managing with careful planning and her sensory needs will need to be met.

You can self refer to CAMHS, you don’t need the school or a professional to do it for you.

Good luck

OP
I can’t comment on the ttchnicalities of bits/ supplements etc as I am new to horse ownership, however your boy being turned out alone is just not right 😢. There are 45 horses on the yard Im on and the only ones on individual turnout are those recovering from ill health, also they are not really ‘alone’ but just separated by electric tape. Does your yard have the facility to do something like this?
Second, There is no way I would stay on a yard with bullying and dangerous practices lije the one your on, sodding off like that on a hack because you didn’t do as the YO said! F**k that!!!
Honestly most of your priblems could be helped by moving to a more professional and supportive yard!!

Both mine are in separate paddocks. I don't think it makes such a massive difference if they can see each other. Mine are very happy no behaviour issues.

To be honest he sounds like a typical cob, strong willed and probably figured out how to get the best of you.
I think you probably need an overhaul with how you deal with and handle him and teach him he can have confidence in you as a leader.
A bitting expert told me a Pelham with two reins was pretty much the same as a Snaffle when ridden off the top ring and this is what I use for hacking. I hack from the Snaffle 99% of the time but have the curb lying there as a sort of handbreak.
If he likes the NS mouthpiece then I would be happy to try the Pelham with two reins.

Yes he sounds very typical. I'm surprised so much weight is being given to the turnout situation. As long as he has plenty and can see other horses it shouldn't make any difference to his behavour. He's taking the piss out of you OP.

So, he’s started bucking when asking for canter (no biggie, I get on with it but it does make me a bit tense)

I've had saddle fitters tell me that it's the canter transition that will really show you how well a saddle fits, particularly if they're very resistant on one rein. Bear in mind that when you change a saddle they will often be more comfortable for a while and then the new saddle can start to develop pressure points. It's like buying a new pair of shoes - feel great in the shop, not so good after 10 miles.

He’s reared and bronced when a horse we were with went out of sight

It was dangerous and irresponsible of your YO to do this. My very reliable but somewhat herd-dependent old boy would have been very upset by this.

My first question is, can ridden behaviour change when his field set up has changed?

Yes. Horses don't really have a concept of piss-taking. If you aren't clear in what you want they'll get on and do their own thing but they don't take the piss the way humans do. Equines in zoos are not kept on their own and horses shouldn't be either.

Personally, when trying to understand herd dynamics I find it better to avoid ideas about a pecking order. There is no evidence that horses are able to understand complex hierarchies and it's more likely they interact on a bi-lateral level equitationscience.com/equitation/position-statement-on-the-use-misuse-of-leadership-and-dominance-concepts-in-horse-training . I wouldn't put one mare in with a group of geldings. I do think horses are happier in groups. I think also you'll be happier when he's in a group, and that may be key to sorting this out.

I would do as PP suggest - move to somewhere with grass turnout in the summer and worry about the winter later. You might find if he's established with a group that are turned out and come in together he'll settle in a stable. You are not happy on this yard, so he won't be.

There's nothing wrong with feeding a food balancer, or a basic supplement that is similar to a food balancer. It's not going to cause him to buck, rear or bolt.

A bitting expert told me a Pelham with two reins was pretty much the same as a Snaffle when ridden off the top ring and this is what I use for hacking. I hack from the Snaffle 99% of the time but have the curb lying there as a sort of handbreak.
If he likes the NS mouthpiece then I would be happy to try the Pelham with two reins.

This is what I was told as well, and told to just knot the second reins on his neck for if I need them. Yard manager obviously didn’t agree and said it was ridiculous and dangerous to do that, why would anyone do that, it’s pointless and I’d be stupid to even try it. So I didn’t. I was going to try the Pelham with roundings (I think a bit pointless, but we’ll see, I’ll try the way I want to try this time as well).

Fibbke whilst I appreciate your horses are fine on their own, as are plenty of others, mine isn’t. And yes he is a typical cob, I keep on top of his behaviour on the ground by being one step ahead and still doing plenty of groundwork with him. He probably is taking the piss... story of my life

I don’t blame him for the rearing and broncing, it’s the situation he was put in that I’m still furious about. But it still happened and it’s still made me feel the way I feel unfortunately.

I agree, one mare should never be with geldings. Yard manager keeps repeating how she’s never had this in all the years she’s had horses. Maybe because no one has ever been stupid enough to put one mare in alone.

I give him the basic supplement instead of the balancer to save on calories, I’ve spoken to many food companies about his feed and I’m happy with it . Thank you. I’ll have a look at that link later once the children are in bed.

I found out more things that were said about me today... all bare faced lies. I even had the messages to prove to my friend what I actually said, compared to what she was told I said. Makes me so mad.

I did some long reining today, he was perfect. It helps that driving was all he did from age 3 to 6! He’s a pro bless him.

No idea why I’ve put peking instead of pecking Maybe I need a Chinese takeaway

Just move OP, life’s too short!

A Pelham with two reins is much clearer. With roundings it applies the curb all of the time, rather than a clear snaffle then curb action when required.

My ex-racer deteriorated so much when he was turned out alone. I would say that's the main cause of your issues.

I moved him to a track livery with 24/7 turnout in a herd and he's a different horse. He's gone from impossible to even walk round the block in hand alone to my 5yo DD being led round the lanes on him. Other horses are so so important I think.

The big reactions also say anxiety to me. This was a nightmare with my boy and when I stopped riding and found some tools to help on the ground, it made a huge difference.

Couldn’t agree more Mane. I’ve just messaged about a livery yard to see how much it is. It’s a huge place, I know someone there already (funnily enough she’s a victim of bullying from my yard manager as well and is the reason she left also). It has an indoor, 2 outdoor schools, a walker, a lunge pen, xc course, and a massive fucking herd!! Automatic water and no poo picking!! Got a feeling it’s going to cost an arm and a leg, but we’ll see. The yard I’m on is a tiny, there’s only 6 of us plus a retirement, and 8 horses. It’s dirt cheap (£100 a month) but this other place includes hay as well. They hay up for you in winter as well... no getting blown away with a wheelbarrow . I have a top budget in my head and if it’s under that then I’ll go and look.

Yes puppy he has quite severe anxiety in a lot of situations. A lot of it from the moment is probably fed off me, I’m anxious just being at the yard now cause she’s always there and I don’t like it! Which is a recipe for disaster with an already anxious horse. Poor sod.

I would think the turnout situation is having a big impact. My sweet, kind, calm sensible kids pony turned into a bit of a nobber when she had to have solo turnout post op.

You should seriously consider moving yards. The dynamics on your current yard sound awful. It sounds really immature and bitchy, everyone slagging each other off, yard owner stirring the pot, etc etc.

With regards to your pony I would work very hard getting him lunging and longreining nicely. It's such a fundamental part of the breaking process he should know how to do it. Either you are doing it wrong, he doesn't know how (which I would expect you to notice if you are competent enough to teach others) or he is evading it for some reason, which goes back to the pain issue. Every horse or pony I have ever lunged enjoys it, even when they work hard. They seem to like the attention and the verbal commands. So I would expect a 6 year old to be able to remember how to, and not take the piss as it should be quite fresh in his memory.

Where was he rescued from? Did you see him on the lunge before you tried him? Are you using side reins and a roller? Is he whip shy? Is he just not listening to you or is he running out on you? I like mine to lunge like clockwork and long rein before even introducing tack, never mind a jockey.

I would move yards, have a thorough vet check then get back to basics by redoing his groundwork. If you do ride, stick to walk and trot until he is balanced enough and obedient enough to do nice trot/canter transitions on both reins on the lunge.

I have a 6 year old highland and she is so heavy on her forehand still I am not attempting canter work until she is mature enough physically to carry her own self on the lunge without being unbalanced. If he's a big, chunky cob with a massive front sometimes it takes a longer time to reach full physical maturity especially if he hasn't been fed properly as a youngster. Then they tweak something and start evasive tactics like bucking. It could also be why he is leaning. I correct mine on the lunge with lots of walk/trot transitions, and half halts in walk and trot on the lunge.

You need to be able to lunge him properly to assess him properly in my opinion.

But definitely move yards for his mental health and for yours.