I think I'm putting down my difficult horse

[whattodowheretogo]

I've posted about my horse on here before but I'd just like some last minute opinions.

I bought him a year ago from a TB breeder and trainer as she felt that she was too old for a horse like him and she couldn't sit his spooks.

No ground manners, didn't know where to put his feet, didn't respond to pressure.

I wanted a project and he was one in every sense of the word. I fell in love with him as soon as I saw him.

When I tried him out he was good, but at the end, he took off with me across the field and didn't stop until he physically couldn't go any further. I wasn't concerned about that, I just figured he was green and overwhelmed and these things would come with time.

When we got him home he needed a chifney to be taken anywhere or he would just set his neck and try to canter off (my ex was looking after him for a lot of the time - he's a racehorse trainer and rehab yard owner so he knows what he's doing!) and even he would struggle with him.

Through the months his ground manners improved but to this day he can suddenly try to drag you somewhere and canter off.

His biggest issues are ridden. I've had many rides on him when he's simply decided to take off and nothing can stop him until he's done himself in. One lesson I had we were cantering for so long with him screeching round the corners and bucking that I was getting lightheaded. My trainer couldn't do anything but stand and watch.

He will do things like take off, then screech to a halt in front of the fence, then shoot off again.

I've taken everything right back to basics, over the winter I worked solely on the ground with him, teaching him the saddle and bridle is a positive thing, we learnt to stand stock still at the mountain block, yield to pressure etc.

But he is so unpredictable - he'll do a nasty spook at "nothing", just completely drop his shoulder.

I've spent months just walking and trotting in the school to make it a nice calm experience for him. I've honestly tried everything.

He's just messed up his only saving grace - to hack he is brilliant and super calm. But this weekend he took one look at something on the floor, bolted for home and ran into the main road. I came off, got concussion and fractured my foot.

I've been riding for 17 years, I'll ride literally anything. I ride friend's difficult horses for them if they've come off and had accidents and have a great time. But there's just something about this horse that I just think.. what is it going to take?

I'm so thankful that this wasn't a worse injury for either me or him.

I'm pretty certain that I'm going to put him down. It's something I've discussed with my vet before after he remarked what a difficult git he was.

I feel like it would be unfair on him to pass him on, I'd worry about how he'd be treated given all his quirks, whether he'd be passed on again etc but also I'd worry that he may seriously injure himself or someone else.

Thoughts/suggestions?

Did you call the blood bank?

I very much doubt a blood bank would take the horse

“As for the spurious bickering over whether a dangerous dog should be put down - yes it should, but here too the owner should not be allowed another dog. They would have been shown to be a bad, irresponsible owner and should never get the chance to betray another animal.”

Really? I own a dangerous dog, he’s not trainable because his issues are caused by incurable health problems. His behavioural vet has introduced me to people as proof that you can do everything right and still end up with a dog with major behavioural problems. He’s been dangerous since he was 1, he’s now nearly 6.

He’s heavily and carefully managed in situations where he’s likely to react aggressively, walks on locked private ground or only on a lead and muzzle on public ground.

He is very hard work to own and keep happy and also to keep everyone else safe from him.

If I became unable physically or mentally to continue to do that any more, I’d have him PTS, because there is no responsible alternative.

I’m not bad or irresponsible, He’s just been hugely unlucky with his health and I have put more time and effort into him than most dog owners ever do...

Sometimes, things just don’t work out.

I am sorry you are in this situation but of course you should PTS, it's the only responsible thing to do.

I had a mare like that. Over four years she became worse and worse. I had every veterinary investigation possible done (the vet even came with me on a hack to see her go bonkers), but couldn't find a reason for her behaviour. Ridden she would buck, rear, take off an, worst of all, stop, shock still and not move. She did that once while trying to cross a road, and even when I got off her I could not get her to move in any direction. A professional rider refused to continue riding her on the grounds that she had children and couldn't risk her life like that after the mare smashed her onto a wall (ridden, not handling).

So she was retired from riding, but she fence walked in the field and box walked in the box, she would pull back when tied on the yard and rear up when you tried to catch her...you name it, she did it, on a daily basis. The yard owner couldn't handle her and I had to go up twice a day despite paying for full livery. In the end I took her to be PTS and the stupid yard owner stood there and said how sad it was and did I want to rethink? So I offered her the mare to keep for life but of course she didn't want her, she couldn't even walk her across the yard.

This is clearly not just a case of PTS because the horse can’t be ridden, although I have known that happen and supported the owner’s decision. This horse sounds dangerous, to himself and others, both under saddle and on the ground.

As for sentimentality, I do not believe that has a place when dealing with animals, especially large dangerous ones like horses. A decision has to be sensible and as impartial as possible. A horse that’s difficult to handle on the ground as well as under saddle, that’s large and strong, who will not enjoy a life of doing nothing (believe me, some horses do not do well as field ornaments), who has deteriorated in behaviour despite careful, experienced handling, is dangerous. OP has done everything correctly and still the horse is not safe. That does happen, I’ve seen it a few times. Horses are too big and too strong to fuck around with and take a chance on.

Jesus Christ. I'm shocked. Surely buying a horse should be given the same consideration (even more so given the costs etc) as any other animal? Not a case of "he doesn't behave how I'd like so should be pts"? I get that you've tried lots OP, but could never be on board with an animal losing its life for this reason.

I'd expect a little bit of introspection, not 'shoot the creature and get another'.

What a ridiculously goady and unecessarily emotive statement.

And no, I don't have room for this horse, nor the money for it. Hence why I wouldn't get one in the first place. They're not effin toys, only existing for human pleasure!

I've honestly no fucking clue why people continue to engage with Pengggwn. Perhaps if everyone ignored her she'd just fuck off.

OP what a terribly sad situation. It sounds like you've done everything you can by this horse.

No they aren't toys but if people don't want to ride them then then there would be far fewer. Like if everyone turned vegan there would be no cows or chickens.

I’m a slightly horsey. As if that qualifies me for anything.

I’d PTS. It’s a working animal that cannot work. It’s either in physical or mental pain. You’ve worked hard to diagnose and treat to no avail. If it’s not PTS this almost certainly won’t change. The risk of injury to horse, handler and public is high wherever it ends up. If passed on and eventually into unscrupulous hands the risk goes up. Essentially the horse is “unsound”. The man who’s horses I ride always PTS horses that he cannot get sound. Because he cannot afford to keep them if they’re not working or sellable, and he will not sell them knowing they could be drugged up or otherwise passed off as sound. In the last 8 years he’s had 3 PTS. One dangerous (almost certainly due to pain that had been treated to the tune of £1000’s), and one due to an injury that didn’t resolve after over a year of treatment. The third one was not sound to ride, but a very lovely horse. The plan was to use her to carry donor embryos (she had carried her own goal successfully) but she never caught. Her lovely nature, and the fact that she was an absolute pleasure to ride when sound meant that the risk of her being drugged up and sold on was too high. These horses were all under 10, TBs and had had small fortunes spent on them for treatment, rest and rehab. They’d also all had a history of being perfectly ok in the past, and with the one exception had never been dangerous. It was an accident I had while riding that horse that was the final straw.

If a dog was dangerous, unpredictable and possibly had an undiagnosable condition, and the owner had sought multiple specialist opinions, then there would be no question over euthanasia. Just because a TB is bigger, more expensive, and (in some people’s minds) prettier than an out of control Rottweiler, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t deserve the same treatment.

bluebell have you handled many horses with behavioural problems? It’s not a case of he doesn’t behave how OP wants, it’s a case of he’s a danger to himself and others. I’ve seen a horse flip himself over backwards twice, crack his head on a concrete road and still get up to continue to behave that way (having had a long history of similar behaviour). I would have called the hunt to come shoot it if it was mine. That may be shocking to some however it’s incredibly dangerous, when a horse has no concept of his surroundings or have self preservation. If you’ve ever had a horse accidentally hurt you, then you realise how strong they really are.

For example, one of mine knocked me out cold in the field, purely through accident. He stopped to scratch as I was leading him, I turned to see why he’d stopped and he brought his head up as I turned. His eye socket hit my temple, knocking me out. Luckily he just stood there as I came to, with an egg sized lump on my head. He didn’t mean it, but my god it hurt. Imagine now that something that weighs half a tonne, 3/4 tonne is determined to run through you, no matter what. That is so very dangerous and for the safety of everyone, sometimes PTS is the best option

I wonder whether all the people upset at the idea of a dangerous horse being humanely euthanised are the ones who are demanding that a dog be put down if it growls or snaps? Or whether they're all vegetarian. I bet not.

Bluebell is another one who clearly knows nothing about horses. Who gives a shit if you're on board with it? You're not the one who has to deal with this horse so i doubt op cares if she's got your approval.

People are bloody deluded aren't they! A horse like this is a completely unpredictable, dangerous animal. This horse could very well kill someone because of its behaviour. Is isn't a case of 'i can't ride it, so i'll put it down' but it will not be a safe companion for anyone. Some times, however hard we try, horses are just like this. A thoroughbred is not a seaside donkey, they require experienced homes at the best of time and they can end up in some truly horrific situations if passed around.

PTS is the only safe, responsible option here.

I'm not a horsey person at all but even I can see that this is the OP's only real option

A horse, well any animal really, doesn't live in the future. They don't see tomorrow or even an hour from now. They live in the now.

Being pts is not the worst thing for animal. Living a life in constant fear is

Been bitten myself by the ex racehorse thing. Beautiful mare, think she was doped when we saw her before buying.

Turned out to have every stable vice under the sun, and was totally unpredictable anywhere but on hacks. She was ok handling wise, but almost impossible to ride, and we had some seriously good riders try.

Spent so much on physio, vet, chirp, behaviour experts....poor girl was screwed in the head by her youth in racing yards.

Sold her on as a brood mare/field companion but within a year she went nuts in new owners field, broke a leg and had to be euthanised.

So sad, but tbh she shouldn't have ever even come to us.

If it helps, OP and the others struggling to understand why PTS is probably for the best, My mate ended up on the other end of this

My immensely horsey, but perhaps slightly naive mate bought a tb as a companion for her horse. She was warned not to ride it, it was strictly a companion.. now it sounds like my mates horse (lets call it Betty) is far safer on the ground than the OPs horse. It was handlable, it would eventually respond to pressure. Just unridable.

No problem. She lived in the perfect place, an isolated farm 5 miles up a private track, absolutely no public roads anywhere near, and 20 miles form the nearest busy ish road. Nothing but fields for miles and miles.

Alas Betty wouldn’t stay in the field, if you took the other horse out, it would break out. Put it in the stable, it would try to jump out, injuring itself. It was impossible to go out alone with the other horse. So she had to take it with her just to be able to excerise her horse.

She tried a companion leading it on foot, and leading it from her own horse but it was too strong and unpredictable when out of the yard. She was in a total quandary as she was very soft hearted and wouldn’t consider PTS. Two horses, and couldn’t ride either.

In the end horsey mate 2 offers to ride Betty on occasion just to give her a chance to ride her horse. She managed 6 months. Betty bolted in a field, bucked her off and tripped in a rabbit hole. Had to get the vet out and PTS on the spot. She broke a few minor bones but otherwise ok.

Betty had a good life for the year she was with my mate, and she tried everything to get to the root of Betty’s problems, just like the OP. But even in the situation people are suggesting, a companion horse in a safe environment, it still isn’t safe. And that’s with a horse that was safe and predictable to handle and lead in the yard.

How the hell will the OP get her hoses feet done, worm it and all the other things you need to be able to do?

And if he kills someone who gives them life changing injuries? Would you then be up for him bring pts bluebell?

“Not a case of "he doesn't behave how I'd like so should be pts"? I get that you've tried lots OP, but could never be on board with an animal losing its life for this reason.”

What would you do with my dog then?

He will bite other dogs if given the chance, he will bite strangers if they touch him (especially vets) he will bite people he doesn’t know in my house if given the chance to, he’ll also bite me if unmuzzled and I’m restraining him from any of those things.

My house is set up so he doesn’t meet people he doesn’t know and I can physically pick him up and move him so it’s all fine, and he’s happy and well trained if none of those things are near him.

But he is a 40kg Rottweiler - if I could no longer man handle him, I’d have him PTS (I’m not old, fairly fit, there’s no reason to think it will become an issue, but you never know) what else is a possibility? That’s not cruel for him and doesn’t mean someone is in danger of a bite.

This is a dangerous animal more than ten times the weight of my dog...

I feel for you OP, what a terrible situation. Sounds like PTS is probably your only real option.

FWIW I have known two similar horses. The first was a TB mare who actually improved quite a lot once she was allowed to live out, with other horses, 24/7, 365 days a year (she grew the fluffiest coat I have ever seen on a TB!). She was never exactly unpredictable though, just highly reactive in all situations, both ridden and on the ground. The second horse was a 6 year old TBX gelding who was highly unpredictable, aggressive and inconsistent in his behaviour. He was eventually PTS and was found to have a brain tumour , so it was the right decision.

I’m on the fence with this one. I’ve got two 10 year old non-ridden/retired horses, one a companion that’s never been broken in (although some failed attempts by all accounts), one that made a credible attempt at flinging me into oblivion and broke my back, so lots of experience with tricky horses. Neither are natives and one is a warmblood, so not traditionally ‘easy’ horses.

Have you spoken to a behaviourist at all? If it were mine I’d take off shoes and throw him out in a field with a herd for a year and see where that gets you.

The issues seem to be around leading/riding, so don’t lead/ride. A horse can be trimmed, have rugs on and off without leading anywhere. You want to move fields? Lead another horse there and yours will follow. I’d want to give it a shot before I made the decision. If it’s jumping out the field, aggressive to people/other horses in the field, or otherwise doesn’t settle after a year, I’d PTS.

wiggler the OP doesn't have a field. she doesn't have access to one - where she keeps them she has already said grazing is like hens teeth. she pays £400 a month on livery.

I'm not that much up to speed on horses but is it possible they can have a sort of mental ilness apart from a un diagnosed brain tumor or somesuch like maladay?.

Sad to see an otherwise healthy animal being put to sleep but it seems to me you've done all and more then what can be reasonaly expected in this situation;!