What's he worth?

[WombatStewForTea]

I've been part loaning a fab horse for nearly two years now. His owner has recently decided to sell him and I'm interested in buying him because I'd be heartbroken to see him go. From an emotional point of view he's priceless, but everyone has said that she is asking too much for him. As much as I love him I just can't justify spending what I know he isn't worth. So in your opinions, what would be a fair price to offer (we're in the North West)? This is obviously more honest than an advert for him would be.

16.1 12 year old Warmblood gelding.
Safe as houses to hack in traffic but can be strong and silly in open places sometimes rearing but will settle.
Beginning to work nicely in the school (never going to be spectacular) but will come down to the level of his rider i.e. will plod around with a novice but on the flip side can be very stubborn and when ridden by an able rider can fight and buck and rear when asked to work properly (apparently in his last home he would do this and the rider would get off and he'd win which is why he did it - been vet/back/teeth checked so nothing medically wrong there).
Total gent on the ground to handle and shoe, generally fine to load and clip.

I think my bugbear lies in that she is expecting to get back what she paid for him (her first horse) without understanding that he's got three years older and not done anything to improve his value - never been out to do anything other than a couple of farm rides.
Also she's basing her price on him being 'super safe' but he isn't super safe! He's bombproof to hack but as I've said above will buck/free and would take the mick out of a novice.

Not an awful lot to be honest, rears etc, not good, no competition record, only beginning to work nicely in the school at 12. He fits nicely into no persons horse land, not quiet enough for most who only want to hack, no demonstrable ability for a competitive rider. £1500 though i know lots will say more but i would let her try and sell him for a bit and come to the realisation herself that he has dropped in value.

I would agree £1500 absolute max,though for a known rearer she should be grateful for a sale, those sorts of horses can passed dealer to dealer !

That's the sort of price people have said up to 2k max. She wants nearer to 4k but would possibly accept 3k!

1500 depending on what comes with him. At a push 2k with a full wardrobe that's decent and fits.

Personally I wouldn't touch him as I want to work a horse in an outline without it rearing. Bear in mind as well that having vet, teeth and back checks doesn't completely rule out a pain issue. Unfortunately you can't ever really do that and the fact that he's worse in an outline makes me wonder if there's something that's been missed. They can be more idle and less inspired in the school but generally that kind of misbehaviour I think could well be pain.

Sorry, short answer was, I agree with PP. 1500 is plenty for a horse that rears, is past his peak physically and can't do a job other than hack.

Wouldn't pay a penny for a rearer. Something I wouldn't tolerate.

As above. He is a rearer he is worth noting. Think not just twice but ten times before buying a rearer. If he goes over backwards he can kill you. Also a simple vet check is not sufficient to rule out a physical cause, he really needs x-rays, scintigraphy, etc. all of which will be incredibly costly and possibly excluded by any insurance.

My first reaction is that I'd let her put him on the market. See what reaction she gets to the price she asks - probably very little unless she is economical with the truth.

Presumably if people do come and look at him then he'll do his tricks and will either put them off or they will want to negotiate his price.

Once she's got a feel for the market then you should make your offer - 1,000 pounds or whatever - and suggest that he'd get a good home etc..

I'm actually surprised you want to buy him. There are loads of lovely horses out there..

Interesting that he's not done any sort of competitions - what would you want him for - just hacking?

£1500, £1800 at a push with the full wardrobe, but I'd have to be completely in love to stretch to that. A rearer with no proven record, a poor performance on the flat and an attitude problem at best, physical problem at the worst, is not really the dream on paper.

Having summed that up, I have revised my answer. I wouldn't buy the horse, ever, but if pushed for a value, £800.

He is 12 so pretty established behaviour wise and his value will drop as he ages. £1000-£1500 max I would say, but I wouldn't be interested in buying him as he is too old, and has behavioural problems that probably wont change much

FWIW, my beautiful gifthorse is a previous HOYs hack finalist and a mare who moves like a fairy. Being a mare she is off to stud this year, but is still probably worth nothing, unless of course she throws outstanding youngstock. She is perfect to handle and in the stable but we have given up riding her as she is a pain in the arse and I have a much nicer WB at home.

If you are going to buy a horse think very carefully about what you really want and how many years you want to keep him

I agree with those who say that if you want him bide your time for a while and let her advertise him. She will soon find out that there isn't the market she thinks there is for that sort of horse. An old pony of mine (sadly no longer with us) came to us in similar fashion (he was on the same yard as us). His owner advertised him for what she thought she'd get due to his breeding, but he was barely schooled and had learnt every evasion in the book, so each weekend people would come and try him out, and every time he'd misbehave and they'd go away. The price dropped week by week! In the end she'd had enough and gave him away so we had him.
Give it a few weeks so she gets the idea that he's not worth as much as she thinks and then make her an offer.

My 1st horse dropped in price from 5250 to 4k. My current horse went from 5k to 1k. All the time they're on the market they're costing the owner money and you can save yours. It's nerve wracking and I only did it because I couldn't afford the asking prices.

Neither of mine had a history of rearing though. I've seen the state of a saddle when a horse goes over backwards. I don't want to think what would have happened had the rider in that case not thrown herself off in time.

Thanks all I appreciate your feedback but I feel like I may have shown him in a more negative light than he actually is while making my point that he isn't as safe as she claims he is.
The open spaces rearing I can't comment on as it wasn't me but the other girl who rides him.
When schooling he has never reared vertically but front legs do come off the ground. Instructor describes it as him throwing a toddler tantrum to get his own way rather than it being nasty and I've never felt unsafe but he does need riding through it. This isn't every time he's ridden or I'd have stopped a long time ago more every few months.
I know I sound like I'm making excuses and I have honestly listened.
Someone asked why I'd want him when he has these flaws but I guess it's just that I do love him dearly!
As far as letting her advertise I'm obviously concerned that she won't be honest and people who try him aren't likely to see this behaviour.
Gabilan he's not actually costing her much as between me and the other girl who part loans him, he is only costing her in insurance.

Lots of thinking to be done I think.

Unless super talented a known rearer won't be worth much.

I wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. He rears out hacking, doesn't like schooling? Does he hunt? Jump?

I think there's a bit of a difference between a known rearer and a horse that threatens to go up and throws its toys out of the pram when asked to work correctly or gets a bit excited in open spaces which from OP's follow up post seems like it may be the case.

A horse is worth what someone will pay for it. If it is more a case of being a bit opinionated and hot (which lets face it, a lot of warmbloods are!) rather than genuinely unsafe I'd say £3-4k is actually about right (although we're down south so I might be off the mark when it comes to prices near you).

I wouldn't buy a rearer for any money. Those I know who would/have have been buying outstanding competitive ponies for teenagers.

As Wifey says there's a big difference between something that actually stands up and something that has a bit of a tantrum in front sometimes.Regardless though, he sounds like a gentleman from the ground but (in the nicest possible way OP, I've loved some bloody awful horses in my time) he's not a lot of use for a new buyer - essentially a hack who needs an experienced rider but isn't good in open spaces. I'd do as others have advised and wait until his owner realises she'd be on to a good thing to see him to you for say £1800.

Also there is a chance that the owner, knowing how much you love him, is trying it on a little with a higher price hoping you will be desperate to snap him up. If you don't bite straight away she may offer him to you at a lower price.

From what you say OP he's just a bit light on his front feet. I'd still want to know why he's evasive in the school, in case there is an undiagnosed problem. My old horse used to levade as a bit of a party trick but basically he did it because he thought it was funny. It was exuberance and I never felt unsafe or as if he was unbalanced. It was much more crouching on his hindlegs and lifting his front legs than standing up on his hind legs and full on rearing.

I'd be wary of describing a horse as rearing. It's like describing a horse as bolting. One person will interpret it in a different way to another. Actual bolting is bloody dangerous. Simply getting a bit strong in faster work can be par for the course.

Point taken Gabilan! I shouldn't have described it as rearing in the school. Out and about as I said it wasn't be but it was described by others as a rear.

OK it sounds like is not a reader, just light on his front feet. This would still scare off most novices, so you have a horse getting on a bit in age, which is a good hack but not for a novice and doesn't have much schooling...1k I'd say because the market is quite depressed.

Then again if you love him he is priceless but it I shall worth being aware of the fact that you'd never make your money back in case of a resale.

Well he's gone up at 3200. She's rejected an offer of 2k. People already lined up to see him on Saturday so not looking great for us as clearly people are interested.

I wouldn't start panicking yet - viewing is only the first bit and once people see him and try him they may well not want him. Then there's negotiating the price and presumably vetting so there are plenty of hurdles yet.

Personally I think 3200 is a lot, but I went to see mine and got him for 2000 less than the advertised price (having told the seller beforehand that I wouldn't pay the full amount) so it's quite possible that the viewers have in mind what they will pay and try to get the price down.

I can understand that it's stressful though.

What he's gone on at is not necessarily what she'll get (although you will never know that!). Friend put her dds pony on at 10k, took 6k. We bought a pony last year for 5k, he was advertised at 8.