five stage vetting

[Puppymouse]

I posted a while back about buying my first horse and had some very useful advice. I've since found a beautiful boy I want to buy and he's being vetted on Tuesday. I have been warned that many horses don't pass vetting and this is fairly common. The yard he's at are hopeful he will but he's 16...

My question is are there degrees of failing where you would still purchase? So if he fails on X you still go ahead but if he fails on Y you walk away? And will the vet advise whether to go ahead in these circumstances or do they have to just leave you to decide?

Their turnout is virtually bare so I think that's probably right. We're just going to keep him on a fibre rich hard feed and then as much ad lib hay and grass as he can eat.

Most people have poor turnout during the winter but that is no excuse for starving your horse. Why didn't they feed ad lib hay?

Another consideration is that sometimes underfed and weak horses are placid only because they are underfed and weak. As they put on weight their temperament might change and they may become a lot livelier to ride.

That's a definite risk with him Booboo. I can only say he isn't remotely what I would call placid at the moment but is sensible - stops when asked (however badly) and didn't even look at stuff I thought he would spook at. My plan is to just make sure he is worked regularly and gets all the hay he needs. I have asked around the local horse community and we have had contact with a range of people off the record who know him either as a livery at this stable, an instructor or staff and nobody has a bad word to say about him. I can't do much more I don't think.

Puppy my first horse was an ex showjumper who had been very badly treated. As his condition got better he got much, much livelier but I had lessons and upped my game. We grew together as a partnership and it was very rewarding. Yes, I could have got a horse that didn't need rescuing but in the 8 years I had him I never regretted it.

Always assume they are lying, no matter how nice they are to you.

I agree with others, check teeth, liver function etc. my horses finish the winter fat because I feed ad lib haylage (I'm allergic to hay). You can't get a horse fit unless they have a base of weight.

Blood test too.

There is a chance they are keeping the horse Light to save money, or they are shovelling expensive quantities of feed in but he is a poor doer, or he won't eat because he is in pain/has an issue, or they are keeping him light to suppress him.

I really don't like buying rejects from riding schools. They tend to be overused or too used to be being badly ridden. The chances of him passing the vet are slim, unless it is for low level stuff. I had three horses fail the vet before I found my event mare (who passed really well!) but I and my vet are nit pickers on soundness, breathing and backs!

Also, who recommended the vet? I once got screwed by using a vet recommended by the event rider as one not used by the yard, was local to them rather than me as the horse was a long way from home. Big mistake. Later turned out He was a local friend to the event rider and so horse passed the vet with flying colours when I had doubts, which made it v hard to argue about. The horse was put down within two years of owning him (neurological issue). I've become a lot more militant since that experience!

Sorry to be a negative Nelly, but I don't want you making the same mistakes we all have in the past!

Vet has been recommended by a friend of my yard owner who used to keep her horse at same stables so is local plus another friend of a friend who has heard really good things about him. I wanted to use my own but they charge a fortune to travel and it's over an hour away.

The more I deal with them the more I think it's almost an honest sale. Just little snippets and my gut. I was very very wary to begin with but he is one of around 60 horses and I can start to see how it isn't the right place for him. I never wanted a horse this breed, this age or from a riding school. But sometimes things go a certain way and I just couldn't get him out of my head when I was trying others.

Then I suggest you wait until after the vetting. Your feelings must be taken into consideration and you can't help which horse you fall for, but this is an expensive enterprise and there are many, many horses out there. I tried about 20: the 2nd I tried was wonderful, perfect, I adored him. He failed the vet. I then had to go round trying loads more, feeling like none matched up to him. At one point I wobbled and wanted to go back to failed horse. But I stuck to my guns and eventually, after much heart ache and hundreds of miles travelled, found my awesome little chestnut ISH mare.

I will send my vet up to three hours away. For the extra £100-150 over the many years of horse ownership, it is worth peace of mind. When I had a horse vetted in the north, A five hour trip, I used one recommended by my own friend who was local to the area, whom the seller tried to warn me off. Vet found a lump in the pastern joint when he flexioned then scanned. You should probs try to use a vet who has no previous connection to the yard or yard owner?

He has never cared for horses owned by yard owner to my knowledge - they use a different one but we happened to know someone who used to keep their horse there and she uses this guy. Plus a recommendation from another friend, I'm comfortable he isn't going to try and fob me off and at 16 I'm expecting him to prob fail the vet. I just want to have as many facts as I can and make a decision. My yard owner wanted to bring him home same day as vetting but I said I wanted time. I will make a decision based on what the vet finds.

I can totally see sense in you using your vet. Mine is one I used by default to maintain consistent care for my loan mare and the particular vet who has seen her since I had her is not rated highly by my yard owner. Hence not thinking the extra £100 or more worth it if we have a more local one who's highly thought of and neutral.

Ok, then vet sounds good.

Wait until he has seen the horse and be prepared to walk away on his recommendation. Also talk to him about the condition etc.
would you be happy if the horse got livelier and tested some boundaries?

On the other hand, if the vet is happy with the horse for what you want to do (this doesn't necessarily mean a full pass as he is quite old), it should ease the questions in the back of your mind.

Also, being brutal (sorry, I know I keep on being miserable), depending on his underlying fitness/soundness and conformation, you have about 4 years of the horse at his current level, approx 5 at slightly gentler level and then from 25ish in a gentle retirement level of work e.g. Hacking and low level dressage. He also won't be able to be sold easily, which may not be an issue if he is your forever horse. Plus insurance can be a bit awkward for veterans.

Having said that, I know some Pretty serious dressage horses still throwing shapes at 25yrs, so it does depend on fitness, sounded, how they've been kept, etc (and sometimes dumb luck avoiding injury!). And better to get an old horse that does everything you want than a young one who doesn't know what you want it to do.

Anyway, the vetting should reveal all and help you decide what to do.

That's exactly what I'm expecting Nags. He's been more talented in the past than I would ever have needed. I want a schoolmaster I can love, learn with and enjoy and my current mare I've loaned since last summer is 26 this year. She can still do most things so is quite special but is winding down now. Having rung round insurers I'm going to with Petplan I think. Our dog is with them and they've always been good.

If he was any more forward than he is now he'd probably stride straight out of the arena but I am trying to set up some lessons and training upfront for me on the ground so I can mitigate boundary pushing and will be having regular riding lessons.

How did it go puppy mouse?

Devastated. Liked him even more but vet found sarcoids, potential respiratory issue (neither of which he was too concerned about - said he was a great horse.) But then after he was ridden he heard a heart murmur

Ahh what a shame :(

Many horses have heart murmurs, but if the vet thought it serious enough to walk away then that's that usually.

What a shame for you! And his owners.

Did the vet tell you to walk away?

Yes, what did the vet say? Plenty of horses have heart murmurs. How bad was it?

So sorry it didn't work out. There will be other horses, but it would be nice if this one had a good home.

Did you ask what sort of heart murmur? I have been told that it depends about whether it's within the rhythm or not (I think that's right - it was something I was once told, may not be using the right terminology) ..... Though it maybe more concerning with the respiratory issue?

It's so hard - I had two horses I really liked fail vettings - one I had loaned for 8 weeks so had become really attached......

He found sarcoids. I thought I could deal with that. Then he was concerned he breathes heavily in canter and might have a respiratory issue. Then he found the murmur. It wasn't there before he was ridden and was after so he said it was probably exacerbated by strain on his heart. He said he was a brilliant horse for me but he couldn't categorically say he wouldn't be dead in 6 months of a heart attack. He said only way to tell more would be a scan but that would be £3-400. Owner was awful when I asked her if she'd consider helping me out with it so all those red flags combined I don't think I can go ahead

What a shame - for the horse, for you and that the horse has the type of owner he has.

Oh know. Yes, the owner should get him scanned. It might explain his weight loss. I know plenty of thoroughbreds who maintain weight but they are well managed.

There are lots of lovely horses in search of good homes though. I hope you find one soon.

That should say oh no. And what Owl said.

Agree, very telling that the owner wasn't bothered about investigating further.

Plenty more fish! What are you looking for? What area?

She intends to sell him with a two stage. So the future owners won't even know. I was horrified. I want to rescue him but I can't afford to buy a field ornament if in 6 months time he can't work onwards and upwards

I know it doesn't feel like this at the moment but you dodged a bullet. Imagine buying a horse only for him to die a few months later!

As far as I understand it heart murmurs are suspect if they appear or become worse after exercise. That coupled with the weight loss is very worrying.

Onward and upwards OP, the right horse is out there for you.

Call me cynical and suspicious, but I suspect she already knows and quite possibly found out when the vet was called in to check why he lost condition - or else she already knew and wants to sell him ASAP before she is unable to do so and him losing condition is the trigger for her sale.