Has anyone ever made a mistake buying a horse?

[Greyhorses]

Hi everyone. Sorry this will be long.

Some years ago I bought an absoloutley gorgeous talented show cob. He knows his job inside and out and has won more ribbons than I can count. He had many many homes on his passport but I assumed that this was because he had been unlucky- now I know why! Nobody has kept him for more than 6 months since he was 4. he is now 9.

His behaviour is horrendous and I am starting to feel like I am not enjoying him any more but I feel too sad for him to pass him on again.

Basically he has a very strong panic button which means he can not be stabled,tied anywhere except one place or put in a horsebox without almost being flattened with sedation. This means I have stopped doing much competing, stopped taking him anywhere and don't want to compete him anymore. A behaviouralist said he was the worst she had seen, he has smashed stable doors clean off, put a hole in the side of a trailer and been stuck over the breast bars. He box walks, kicks, rears and eventually will climb out of a stable. When at events he is very difficult to handle and needs a team of people to help me as he is so hyped up. He flips if another horse comes near him while he is confined (either by a tie, stable or held) however is fine in the field. He is a nightmare in the lorry as he rocks it when rearing and stamping, he can not be travelled alone and needs a companion at all times (which I don't have any more hence the issues becoming worse!)

At home he is more relaxed, however he stomps/rears/kicks walls/spooks/snaps headcollars and is generally a thug. He has a number of issues I am too exhausted to fix! He has seen a number of professionals over the years and can only be handled by me or the most experienced groom at the yard. I have had lots of trouble on yards and he has even been thrown off one for persistent damage to property.

Riding at home he is sometimes very good and sometimes very horrible depending on his mood. He can sometimes buck which does not bother me but he has an annoying habit of spinning and pretending to gallop in the wrong direction of spooked, he is not scared he has just learnt this trick as it scares me and gets him out of working. He is strong and he knows it but I can generally cope. He is happiest in the field and would be over the moon if he was never ridden again, however I can't afford an expensive field ornament. He lives out at present with a few friends.

From some digging in his past I found he was kept confined while still entire in a stable until he was 4 and was used as a stallion hence where I think the provlems started. Various owners I have traced admitted they couldn't cope and sold him. One said he was very dangerous. He is definatley not a rig and was gelded after producing 7 foals at 4.

I am seriously debating selling him, I love the bones of him but realistically he is sucking all enjoyment out of it for me. I don't really want to ride as there's no point as I have nothing to aim for, I can't go anywhere and he is unpredictable in most respects. In the wrong hands I think he could be dangerous. I used to love to compete and happy hacking does not do it for me!

He has some good points. When he works well he tries his heart out, he loves attention and is very quiet and easy to do in the field plus he is a great show horse (if you can get him to the ring!) he would suit someone looking for a happy hacker to live on a very quiet yard with no other people he can hurt and a few small companions, it's not going to be that easy to find though!

Has anyone else ever bought the wrong horse? I wanted an all rounder to compete and have fun with and have ended up being stuck with him. Problem is I do love him and do not want to see him fall into the wrong hands- plus who would seriously take on a happy hacker who can't be stabled or boxed and who does not enjoy fuss or being ridden and who is only 9?

Not expecting a resoloution to this and I proberbly will end up keeping him and resenting him regardless but it's made me feel better to admit how I feel to someone!

Poor you OP. I haven't made a mistake so I don't have experience of it. It sounds very hard work and I wouldn't blame you for selling him.

How are your finances and where are you in the country, I once used a lovely man called Michael Pearce (think that is how it is spelt) when I had a few issues with one of mine, I had owned her since she was 2 and she was about 7. I knew the cause of the issue but couldn't solve it. He did, in an afternoon, but it wasn't as complicated as yours.

If you can afford it maybe there is someone out there who can help you. If not you need to think very long term - can you put up with the work, hassle and no enjoyment for up to 20 years?

Hi, sorry should have mentioned he has already been stabled on a professional yard with my friend who is a vet and also breeds/deals with stallions day in and day out. Her advice was to sell or turn away. My finances are tight and I have him currently on a yard where he lives out all year round with professional advice 30mins drive from home. I specifically picked this place as the yard owner deals with problem horses and I trust her with him. Even she can't stable him for more than an hour or two though and she does manage to box and travel him for me but I could never in a million years take him anywhere by myself without a professional.

Thank you very much for your advice, I have already tried one behaviouralist who said it was a mixture of panic combined with attention seeking. maybe another opinion isn't a bad idea though

Thing is though Grey - you could pour all the money you have and more at him and it might not work, it is bloody hard. You clearly think a lot about him but are not getting any enjoyment from him most of the time.

There isn't an easy answer.

The easy answer in this case is to have him put to sleep.

He is a danger to you, to everyone he comes into contact with and to himself.

He is neither use nor ornament to man nor beast.

If you have him insured and destroyed because of severe behavioral issues you may possibly be able to claim.

There are 1000's upon 1000's of sane and sensible horses out there. Have your boy pts. It is the kindest thing for him honestly. He will end up in a bad home and either be hurt himself or hurting someone.

Thanks to both of you.

To be honest I think the only options I have are to leave him out forever where he is happy or PTS.
I have thought about the latter however when watching him in the field happy and stress free it makes me doubt myself.
I do know it's an option which I am considering sadly.

The thing is if you leave him out he will still need attention at some point. Farrier/ vet etc. If he is ill or injured at any point you could have a dangerous horse in pain needed to be handled or transported or box rested. Which is a recipe for serious disaster.

Far better you make a decision in your own time and do it on a calm day.

Have you contacted his breeder at all? Was it them that kept him stabled until a 4 y.o entire or was he sold as a foal? Did you have a vet check when you bought him?

He had a 5 stage vetting with bloods, I was naive and didn't see him stabled and literally saw him brought in and ridden. He was then delivered so I didn't see him boxed. Very stupid I know.

His breeder is not in a position to have him back but it was not them who kept him stabled. From what I gather most of his owners have been scared to handle him and he has been allowed to get away with this behaviour!

What a mess!

It sounds like 'normal' things - stabling, travelling, tying up - are things that are too overwhelming for your horse to cope with. It must be scary for him at times too.

Please don't pass him on, horses like this end up in increasingly bad situations. I agree with bimandbam that PTS is the only real option. There are worse fates for a horse than being PTS in his field with a mouthful of grass/mints/feed and knowing nothing about it. He won't be scared or in pain which is how he may end up if he gets sold on and ends up with a meat buyer.

You say he is a show cob - what's his breeding? Is he a Section D or something else? Some Welsh bloodlines are known for impossible to manage horses, as are some breeds in general.

He is a fell, I won't say from where as I don't want people from the yard knowing what I really think but I went for him thinking he would be great to build confidence on as they had such great write ups! I think he is just one messed up soul unfortunately...

Oh Grey I've read your post and you have done everything you can for your geldong . I haven't ridden a horse for years and your horse sounds like on a good day he's a bold and spirited boy.

But if you sell him on, he's out of your control, and there will be owners who may try to control his wilfulness .
Use of a more severe bit, more leather, reducing his feed, to physical chastisement.
If you cannot keep him, it might be better to let him 'go' ?

Its a very difficult situation. Rereading your post he sounds almost claustrophobic. He is fine when he can access the flight button but panics and stresses when he can't and then presses the fight button.

If he is calm and kind when 'done' in the field then I don't think he is inherently bad. Just had bad stuff done to him. Bastards. So very unnecessary.

How long have you owned him for? And the behaviour experts, how long have they worked with him? Have you considered sending him away for completely restarting with his education. From been halter trained to ridden and travelling?

I am not one for carrots on sticks and all that bollocks usually but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. If you are anywhere near Yorkshire there is someone called guy Roberts at the racing college who deals with stuff like this. He won't be cheap but maybe worth a shot. Or ask him for recommendations.

The other thing you could ask for is his bloods to be tested for any hormonal imbalance. Its unusual in geldings but not impossible. Also any deficiencies in certain minerals can exacerbate panic behaviour. Magnesium I think is a common one. It won't cure him but might help.

Its such a shame for him. Stabled 4 years as an entire will have certainly done the damage. You need to undo that damage which might never be possible. But if you want to give him one last chance I would certainly consider a few weeks or a month with a reputable, experienced NH person who specialises in this sort of problem.

It would be extremely irresponsible of you to sell him on. You might find a good home for him but you cant control where he goes after that. If you cant keep him, cant fix him and he is truly dangerous the only option is PTS

Poor boy. I think you should think seriously about having him pts (it's a shame the previous owner didn't really) - and selling him on do obviously dangerous is unforgivable really - unless there is somewhere he could go to be a 24 hour live out field companion.

Or would it be worth trying someone like this? www.ponderosaponys.co.uk They take on horses knowing exactly what they are like & will do lots of groundwork with them, some are never ridden. It might be worth having a conversation with them anyway.

If your finances mean that the most affordable option for you is PTS & insurance I don't think you should feel guilty. I know someone who eventually reached the stage of having her horse PTS for slightly different reasons - but basically because he was unable to do the job he had been bought for & unsuitable for selling on - and it ended up being a big relief really. I think now she has a new horse she realises that it was definitely the right decision - if that makes sense

Is he insured? He sounds like he could be very dangerous so that is an absolute must, what ever you decide to do.

I have had a few problem horses and made it work but I always knew exactly what I was getting and I am in no way competative so a hack on a challenge was good for me. I had one mare that i was starting to feel I was over my head with. I couldn't have her on a livery yard as I couldn't guarantee who may handle her and I couldn't sell her as I was worried she may hurt someone (she used to get so wound up she would rear and go over backwards). I used to cry before I got on her. But suddenly she became perfect! It was like she realised she was about to run out of options, or maybe because she was ridden every day and I didn't get off till she did the thing I wanted (sometimes this was just walking round the field without a drama, if there was a drama we would finish the lap and do another... One day this took 2 hours :/).

It is really sad that people were dishonest and passed him on. Defo not good for the horse or you.

I have no advice as it sounds like your doing everything I would do. I do have a lt of sympathy though. I hope you come to the best solution off you both.

The first horse I ever bought was a huge mistake. She had problems with almost everything, panicking on hacks, refusing to jump, refusing to load, box walking, fence walking, impossible to tie up, everything was a problem with her. I spent 4.5 years taking her to vets and trainers but nothing helped. In the end I had her PTS. It was an awful decision but she would have had a horrible life passed on to the next owner and may have seriously hurt someone as well.

If you can't afford to retire him have him PTS. Do not pass on the problem to someone else.

If you're up for trying more ideas operant conditioning seems to work well with klaustophobic horses.

I agree with pts. To some it seems harsh but you have to do what is kindest for the horse and as you mentioned he has had many many homes and if you sell him on this is likely to turn into many many more which is going to make him worse through being unsettled! I always think when people say its cruel etc to pts you need to remember its not like they know its going to happen and when you look at the alternative of being bumped from pillar to post and ending up who knows where!! A very hard decision to make but for me the kindest for your horse!

He does sound like a bit of a pain in the butt, Grey.

I understand that you didn't observe certain things before you bought (I think we've all had cause to kick ourselves for missing things, in our enthusiasm ) ... but did you buy him from a dealer (or anywhere where he formed part of 'the business') and, if so, did the seller imply that he was fine to stable, tie-up, travel, etc.

The reason I ask, is that horses come under the sale of goods act and must be fit for purpose (when professionally sold ... so that would apply to a dealer, a riding school, etc, but not a private sale from someone with no business connection).

Just thought I'd mention it. With horses people tend to automatically think 'buyer beware', but it is possible that (in the right circumstances) you could have some comeback.

Other than that, yes, you have got limited options. You sound like an honest sort, so selling on is going to be a problem for you ... but you'll maybe find someone who could use him. A bold Fell, who enjoys working, could make a great family hunter (if they have the hunt on their doorstep, so don't have to travel ). I once passed on a 'bit-of-a-thug' to be used for exactly that purpose ... he loved it and settled down just enough to be useful.

Ah, just re-read and see that when referring to competing, you were talking about showing, not jumping ... so maybe not a bold hunter.

I am genuinely shocked at the amount of people suggesting PTS as the best option before all avenues have been investigated. What tests have the vets done?
I do think that he is not the right horse for you and you would not be wrong to rehome him carefully.
There is no guarantee when any horse is sold on that they could find themselves in a bad situation and end up suffering at someones hands. That risk is taken by anyone to rehomes a horse no matter how saint like they may or may not be. If you choose to destroy an animal who is capable of living a happy, healthy life for insurance purposes then that it fine, but don't dress it up as something it is not.

Without meeting your boy and witnessing his behaviour it is very difficult to assess whether he is able to be rehabilitated. Are you able to say what part of the country you are in?

I do think that you have found a horse who is not suitable for you and you sound as though you have gone to a fair bit of effort in getting help to make it work between you. It is always sad when you have made an emotional bond and yet things aren't working out. Is it possible for you to put him out on loan as a companion? Does he get on with other horses and can he be seen by vet/farrier/physio from the field if he struggles being on the yard? It may be a way for him to spend some time being turned away and letting the memories fade whilst letting you get on with regaining your confidence with a better suited steed?

Would the current yard owner be prepared to take him on if you gave him to her - that would be a better solution than PTS and leaves you in no different a position ie no horse and no financial commitment . My first horse was very difficult ( and dangerous) , she was an ex race horse and had a whole array of mental health problems ,ultimately she was retired at 17 due to her mental state making her too dangerous to ride and was finally PTS a at 27 when she had a complete breakdown .

If I had a pound for every mistake id made buying a horse Id be rich! Funnily enough I have had Fells for several years. One of them was a bit nutty and i returned him to the vendor (a friend) - it was a difficult conversation. I later heard the vet who previously had gelded the pony tested and found testerone - pony was sent to a large animal hospital and they opened him up to find a third testicle in his stomach area - he was a freak of nature! He settled after that and found a forever home.
What I will say is that you can throw alot of money trying to fix a horse and to no avail. Work out your budget (how much you will spend trying to fix this pony) and strategy (what you want). Set a time scale and crack on. If at the end of the timescale you are not making progress then cut your losses.
If, you have lost trust and faith in the pony - and it sounds as though you have, cut your losses and never look back. Stick it in the sales. A good horse will find its own luck. This pony might find a great home where he lives out and is used for herding sheep / on some Welsh farmers hunt. What some people call dangerous, others over my rural neck of the woods call 'character'.

People's yard routines vary massively. What is fine for some ponies makes others anxious - there is a myriad of reasons, not just health ones, that could be triggering the problems.
If you really are going to cosider PTS (omg) - please get someone like Barry Hook at Andover to take a look at the pony (google him). He will tell you no messing if the pony is dangerous or just needs firm handling and a different regime.
Best of luck.

I can't believe so many people have sold on a horse they know is dangerous, have they no conscience? Ditto saying 'put it in the sales'.

Of course rehoming with someone who knows what they are taking on and is prepared to take the risk is a different thing entirely but finding someone like that is not easy with so many good horses looking for homes.

I would agree with whoever said he sounds claustrophobic and who could blame him? It sounds as if he's spent his whole life having demands made on him and never got the chance to just be a horse. I know that's not much use to you OP as you want to get out and do things but where you said this:- who would seriously take on a happy hacker who can't be stabled or boxed? is not necessarily a problem. Plenty of the happy hackers I know don't stable their horses or box them anywhere! The real issue is whether he is safe enough to be a happy hacker. Does he do the spinning and all that on the roads or out hacking or is it just when he is being asked to work in the school? No one wants a hack that is continually spooking but if he's ok once he's out then someone may enjoy him. Not everyone wants to compete.

If you can't find anyone who wants him and you do decide to PTS then you shouldn't feel guilty. If he's happy in the field at the moment with his friends then you might be giving him the first real peace he's ever had which isn't a bad ending. The only wrong decision in this would be to pass him on to another unsuspecting owner and goodness knows what fate, and you don't sound like the kind of person to do that.

Firstly -no horse is born being a complete arse - people made him this way and that is bloody awful imo and probably many others.

I think you are his 'end of line' as it were - animals deserve better than to be passed from post to post getting more screwed up as they go along.

If you can't afford to hunt down someone who can help him either become what you want or become safe enough to find a good home - and there will be someone somewhere who will crack it - I fully believe that, then having him pts is the kindest thing to do.

Don't feel guilty, its much better than him being sold/put into sales/whatever and having a utterly shit life or potentially causing someone some serious damage!

it sounds to me like you want to do the right thing by him and you so well done for that!

And for the record I am mostly a happy hacker - I have a tb that lives out 24/7 and we have yet to travel anywhere - have had him nearly a year. Admittedly we are slowly building up to it but if he couldn't travel then it wouldn't be the end of the world at all.

Before him (and pre ds) I had a mare for 5 years - we hacked mostly and traveled 5 times for 2 yard moves and 3 shows!

Not all happy hackers want to box or stable

But is he safe enough? Could he be safe enough? Have you got the pennies to get help to sort him out?