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Original poster

Tongue over the bit- help!

27 replies

monsterchild · 10/09/2012 17:38

My horse is a master at getting his tongue over the bit. I have had to change him from a snaffle to a rather high ported curb to ride. The problem is that I am not a good enough rider to feel confident riding in this bit!

I looked at the wrot of rubber tongue gag things to put on the bit but that looks like a nightmare to have in your mouth.

does anyone have an experience dealing with this, and have any suggestions?

I have tried:
to put the bit higher in his mouth, it didn't work,
buckling the cavesson tight, but his reaction to that was also bad, and I have always been told that a tight cavesson is bad. (and as he wasn't his happy self, I saw evidence of that)
riding in a jumping hackamore, but I just don't have the precision I would have with a snaffle. For trail rides it's fine, but for flat work it's very clumsey and I am hauling him around too much.

Any suggestions are welcome!

OP posts:
Original poster
monsterchild · 10/09/2012 17:42

That should be "sort" of rubber tongue gag, not wroth. Sorry!

OP posts:
countingto10 · 10/09/2012 20:12

This might be worth looking at, thinking of trying it with my mare who seems to hate all tongue pressure at moment and goes around with her tongue hanging out. You can hire from these people too.

HTH

JeuxDEnfants · 10/09/2012 20:31

Cherry roller? Or kimblewick?

JeuxDEnfants · 10/09/2012 20:32

Maybe not kimblewick if sensitive mouth and you're not confident.

JeuxDEnfants · 10/09/2012 20:32

Do you have a martingale?

JeuxDEnfants · 10/09/2012 20:33

Would a noseband help?

horseylady · 10/09/2012 21:28

Flash nose band?

Or try a copper bit Or a loose ring snaffle with a Waterford mouth piece. Giving him something which moves might just alleviate the problem.

alwaysGOLD · 10/09/2012 21:52

Is this a recent problem? Or has he always done this?

As horseylady said, flash noseband and copper bit might just help

Booboostoo · 10/09/2012 22:00

Try a Sprenger KK Ultra or a Turnado (you can try them out off one of the bit banks that allow you to return the bit if no good).

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 11/09/2012 14:51

The rubber tongue stops look scary, but dont forget, where the bit sits is actually quite low in the horses mouth. There is miles of tongue and jaw behind it. Id imagine it would be far more comfy than a large ported curb!
The bit that CountingTo10 linked to looks very good too.
You could also try bitless. Dr Cooks or a Scawbrig might help.
You should, whatever you choose, get his mouth checked out. There could be a reason that he is doing it.

Callisto · 12/09/2012 11:05

We have a pointer who gets his tongue over the bit. The only thing that works with him is an Australian noseband. DD's pony also sometimes gets his tongue over the bit (he goes in either a fulmer with keepers or an eggbut) but I've found that a flash does the job.

Original poster
monsterchild · 12/09/2012 14:13

I am sorry i wasn't around earlier! Real life intrusion!

However I am very happy to hear all your suggestions. I haven't tried the Australian or grackle nosebands. Those could work. the regular cavesson just doesn't do it unless its too tight. I don't want his mouth clamped shut.

I also had a suggestion (which I think is the same principle as the Australian) to put baling twine through the bit then bring the ends out to the top of his nose and tie that to the nose band. (this was from soneone who doesn't use nosebands). I if I find a cure I'll report back!

thanks again everyone!

OP posts:
Original poster
monsterchild · 12/09/2012 14:18

Saggy, I did have his mouth checked out. He has one very odd looking front tooth, but nothing that the vet thought could effect his bitting. We've only had him for a year, I didn't think he did this when I took him for a test ride (he came with a snaffle). But he didn't like the snaffle, so we switched him to a jumping hackamore. For the trails it's ok, but for arena work I'd like more sublety. I did notice that when he has his tongue over the bit, you can't really tell. He doesn't hang out his tongue or anything. For all I know, those first rides he did have his tongue over the bit! he was very responsive! POor thing!

His previous owner didn't ride much at all, he was a sometimes trail horse at best. But the good thing is, he was well trained to start and nothing she did erased any of that, he's just a tad rusty. Hence the desire to get him tuned up!

OP posts:
Booboostoo · 12/09/2012 15:00

Tha advantage of the KK Ultra and the Turnado is that they are BD legal. Not sure if you want to compete him, but if you do and he is settled in these bits then you have your solution!

When he gets his tongue over the bit does it not feel a lot more sensitive to the action of the bit (some horses rear up and some take off through worry)?

Booboostoo · 12/09/2012 15:01

Sorry "it" should be "he"!!! Typo!

Original poster
monsterchild · 12/09/2012 16:17

Booboostoo, he is more sensitive liek this, but he doesn't really do anything. I try to ride with a light hand, and I can now notice when I'm riding he's got his tongue over, but just looking at him you'd never know. I am also surprised how quickly he can do it.

The first time I did notice, was out on the trail and I didn't have a way to stop it, so I just rode him like that to get home. (otherwise we had to stop about every three steps). He didn't bolt or throw his head or hang his tongue out or anything.

I did for a half second wonder if I should just get a nice rubber bit and let him do it, but I think that's a very bad answer!

I will look into the KK and Turnado.

Thanks for the ideas.

OP posts:
SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 12/09/2012 16:22

If he goes well in a hacks more, try a Dr Cooks. There's a lot more of everything with those!

Booboostoo · 12/09/2012 17:04

Well at least he doesn't explode when he does it! I've only ever had two horses get their tongue over the bit, one took off and left the arena Shock and the other nearly went up in his confusion (I jumped off before he had a chance to think about it too much!!!).

Hope you find a solution!

horseylady · 12/09/2012 17:49

I really like the kk ultra!!! Lovely bit, bd legal!! Good luck!!

frostyfingers · 13/09/2012 11:59

A good old fashioned drop noseband might be better than a grakle - I found it more effective, with the grakle dhorse kept stretching it by crossing his jaw and I was forever putting in extra holes but for some reason he couldn't do it with the basic drop noseband.

Original poster
monsterchild · 14/09/2012 02:51

frosty, would a drop nose band keep the bit lifted as well? It think that is a big part of the problem. He can get his tongue over anything with a joint even with a snug cavesson. It's amazing, a real skill. I just don't want to bind his mouth shut, as I've always been taught this is not good and not conducive to good riding.

He can't do it with a snug noseband and a ported bit, but I am not comfortable riding in a curb as he's actually pretty light and doesn't need that much bit.

OP posts:
DolomitesDonkey · 14/09/2012 18:45

Dumb question probably - you have had his teeth checked right? Ah, now I re-read you say you have, but when was this? You say you've had him a year. How old is he? If he's young, it could be that within that year a wolf tooth has emerged and is giving him grief.

I'm hugely against nosebands hauled tight without thought - and tbh, I worry when I hear you say you simply tightened the cheek straps to make the bit sit higher in the mouth. :(

A curb does not require a particularly experienced rider, but instead one with a light and responsive hand - some do, some don't.

Rubber bits don't allow for salivation in the way that a stainless steel bit does, so some horses will resist them as they pinch the lips and "bang" on the tongue rather than sliding.

In your shoes I'd recommend:-

  1. Dentist
  2. talking to the bit bank - perhaps neue schule (?)
  3. Dr. Cooks.
Original poster
monsterchild · 15/09/2012 01:40

Hi Donkey, he is 16. He is due for his fall vetting soon, so I will have teeth checked again.
I also did try raising the bit (snaffle, not the curb) but it wasn't successful. He has a very facile tongue! And knowing that wasn't the answer, I tried it one day just to see if it made a difference. It didn't.

I also don't like rubber bits either, and I think for this horse a thinner bit may be more comfortable for him, but it may not, I'll be trying a few things.

I did ride him for a while in a jumping hackamore, but we had a bit of an issue with that being clumsy. I have seen the Dr. Cooks, he may do well in that.

the biggest problem here is really me, the rider. I can ride in a ported curb, but I jut don't feel like my hands are light enough. I grew up riding huge forward TBs, (and looking back was probably overhorsed most of the time!) and this little guy needs a nice, light consistent hand. It's hard work for me, believe me! that's why I started out with the hack, because it gave me a chance to work on my hands without hauling on his mouth. But sometimes that is too dull. So I'd like to work on myself as well as his skills, and I feel like a snaffle bit will help us do that.

However, we'll wait until the vet checks his teeth again, and go from there.

I really do appreciate all the suggestions, I have some ideas about how to approach this now!

OP posts:
DolomitesDonkey · 15/09/2012 06:57

I have a Dr. Cooks which I've used to some degree of success. It's certainly not something you can yank out of the box and have perfect the first time for dressage as it takes a little getting used to and until I was the steering was a bit hit & miss! Wink

I didn't find it so great for hacking at all as I just wasn't able to stop her with any degree of success and every time I hacked out I'd ache all over my shoulders the next day from having to "hold on" so hard.

I really like the look of the neue schule bits but they're so expensive and I can't find a bit bank in my country - I suppose really I should phone neue schule and ask.

Where are you based? On the off chance you're anywhere near me you're more than welcome to have a loan of my dr. Cooks.

frostyfingers · 15/09/2012 08:56

I don't think a drop would work for you then, they are better for horses that cross their jaw - if he can fiddle his tongue over then just anchoring him down won't help.

The answer lies in the bit as others have said - perhaps one which really encourages him to mouth so that he's thinking about that rather than putting it over. There are bitting people who come out and try bits with you (at a price of course), or if you have a good tack shop that you trust they may be able to advise.

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