another pony loan thread!

[Ohyoubadbadkitten]

We have the opportunity to loan a pony for dd, we are meeting the owner this comingweek. It is at the stables dd volunteers at and would stay there and be ridden by others in lessons. It is a good size for dd and she can handle him well. What sort of questions should we be asking? we've never done this before.

If I dont reply for a couple of days its cos I'll be away and not sure if I'll have internet access, but I will come back here as soon as I can!

I would want to know exactly how much the riding school will be using the pony and get an agreement in writing. Also, I guess you will be paying for the privilege of keeping the pony at the stables, so will the work your daughter puts in plus the pony being used for lessons make livery cheaper?

I think the whole loan thing is covered on the BHS website loan agreement. You can download it and amend as necessary. It was the one that I used when putting my daughters old pony on loan and I highly recommend it.

We will be paying, so that is a good thought Callisto. Thanks for the tip on the bhs loan agreement. I'll take a look at that.

I 2nd the BHS loan agreement,you can alter it to suit your situation-we have it for newboy.

I'd want to know what days/hours the school will use him.Will your hours be set of flexible?Who has first call on him? Can you take him out to shows/Pony Club? Are there any activities he is not allowed to do? Who pays for shoes/worming/jabs.Is he on any special feed and who pays for it? Are there any issues with him that you need to be aware of,ie not loading or problems with traffic ect? Will the school carry out his day to day care,or will it be down to you? What happens if you can't get to the stables to turn him out/bring him in?
Also,check and photograph the condition of tack and rugs if you can,you don't want to be blamed for damage that someone else might have done.Is he covered by the school's insurance and are you covered whilst your DD rides him?

Sorry if that sounds a lot,but it is really worth having everything down in black and white-it can save heartache,expense and misunderstandings in future.

Good luck with him.I bet your dd is so excited!

That is a really great set of questions mirage, thank you :) we've warned dd not to get her hopes up, but she is still rather excited as am I

Bum fail on the strike through.

Ok results are - £85/week for everything including working livery insurance, feed, vet, shoeing, supplements. Lessons are half price (so £20 for a group lesson/hour) plus a couple of free hacks a week. We could only take him out to shows when others are going off from the stables.

I think we may end up really upsetting dd by saying no. Its a 25 minute drive away on a good run. To get good value out of it we would have to give up any remaining free time we have. dd has other interests too and she would have to choose. I think it is just too much to justify.

dd is one of very few who dont own/loan a pony there and is rather sidelined as a result despite working there every saturday. The stable owner told us that dd would be moved into a different group because everyone else is getting ahead as they ride several times a week.

I'd look for a different stables but there arent many round here who let the kids work and dd absolutely loves it there.

Oh dear,that does seem a lot. Could you put an ad on preloved looking for a share? A lot of people buy a pony only to find that the child doesn't want to ride as much as they thought and would welcome a sharer.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

85 a week and you get to ride 3 times a week AND pay for the lesson?

Full livery ok it's not too bad price wise but 25mins is a long way and like you say with weekly lessons your looking at nearly 100a week with little flexibility.

I'd upset dd, see if you can find a share or loan nearer to home where shell get more benefit. If time is going to be an issue the just keep with the lessons and the helping out. Or as I said, look for a three day a week share.

Good luck!

Have to say, that is massively expensive. Round here working livery is approx £55pw and the kind of arrangement you're talking about is around £25 pw.

Horseylady she could ride 4 times a week including the two free hacks. Plus of course as many more private lessons as we wish to pay for.

I think iam going to have to upset dd, she is away with school at the moment. I am dreading the conversation. I think she still needs to remember how privileged she is to be able to ride at all. Being at a stables where everyone seems to be affording ponies and lots of lessons must skew her view point a little, but it's hard when everyone else is going out for an owners hack and she is left on the yard working with only the adults around.

I think that we must put concerted effort into trying to find a share closer to home. A 3 day a week one is a good idea.

I've decided it's a definite no. The pony will be on 6 month loan from a child who should rightly be riding him but is too attached to her smaller pony to move on properly. She could well want him back in 6 months and dd would have given up a fair bit of her activities plus got used to pretending a pony is hers and it could all stop with a months notice after the 6 months. She'd end up with nothing but heartbreak.
I feel relieved now, just need to talk to dh and then tell the stable manager (who will be rightly pissed off with me as I'd said we'd be going ahead if dd was happy to give up her other stuff - idiot that I am, I was convinced when we left that we'd be going ahead)

I think you've made the right decision, that's an awful lot of money. Most people I know who share pay about £10 per day. I've just introduced someone to my friend who wanted to loan her horse out a couple of days a week. The arrangement is £8 per day, plus a tenner towards the farrier every 6-8 wks or so (horse is unshod), she also gets her lessons cheaper as a loanee if she wants them (friend is qualified instructor). Nice yard with direct access to Downs, floodlit school, cross country course etc.
I'm sure a share nearer home would be a better option for your dd, although I'd try to find one at a decent sized yard as I've described if you can, as she is obviously used to being part of the gang and might be a bit lost at a smaller place with little company.

Thanks pixel. I'm going to have to be brave tomorrow and phone up. ( dh refuses to let me delegate the task)

My sharer pays 20 a week and rides 2-3 times. Plus looks after the horse when I'm away.

Good luck in finding something suitable. Still gobsmacked at the costs!!

Thank you horseylady. I really hope something comes up too. It on reflection was pretty daft to consider this.
Might need some minor hand holding tomorrow, the stable manager is a rather strong character and I'm not looking forward to saying weve decided not to go ahead.

Just saw this and don't shoot me but, to help prepare for 'the conversation it might be worth thinking about the following questions:

Are you confident you won't get talked into taking on the pony anyway?( Even though the cost / short loan time-frame risk means you shouldn't.)

Do you think the yard manager might see the refusal as a negotiating tactic?
If they do, is it worth you having an 'exit' figure in mind and see if that flies?
Also, is the work she currently does in the stables something that could be factored in for a further price reduction?

Hope you do manage to find the right loan or share for your DD and best of luck tomorrow.

why would I shoot you? Those are helpful questions!
I think it comes down to:

dd has lots of commitments in life at the moment and she would have to give up some of them (some of which are very important to her) in order to make the most of the opportunity (and the cost!). Some of those things would be hard to get back into again. It looks likely that the loan will be only short term and it doesnt appear wise to give up so much for something that could stop with little notice.

I'll leave the money side out of it I think as although its a very important factor its easier to have one good concrete reason.

I know she will try and talk me round, but I need to have that paragraph in front of me so there is a point to my conversation.

look, my 'how much' face: £85 a week!

that's crazy

you could easily find a share/part loan for half that

OYBBK, I'm just chipping in to say it definitely sounds the right decision to walk away from it. I've just done a tot-up, and my kids' little Welshie costs me no more than £40 a week to keep. I've included feet, wormers, basic vet's bills, feed, 3rd party insurance and the amount I would pay for DIY livery if I didn't keep him at home, iyswim. My kids can ride him 7 days a week if they want to, go to shows and PC rallies when we want. My horse's sharer's little girl rides him once a week out with her mum, and for that they pay me half of his hoof care (barefoot atm which works out at about £20 every 10 weeks, but will split the cost of shoes if she rides him more often.) The little girl can come down whenever she wants to, too - it is unlikely that an 8yo, 4yo and 22mo are going to wear out a fit healthy little pony in the prime of his life!

It sounds to me like the yo where you go is using a bit of emotional blackmail on you and your daughter - 'you'll be left behind if you don't get a pony, blah, blah.' As for £85 a week - I would be expecting use of the pony whenever you want for that price. £340 per month would pay for bloody good full livery for a small pony round here (and I am in that expensive Dahn Sarf!) with you just having to turn up and have a coffee on the mounting block while someone groomed and tacked up your horse and led it round to you without you ever needing to move a muscle. And £20 for an hour's group lesson on a pony you are already paying for? I pay £15 for an hour and a half flatwork group lesson with a very experienced lady, no more than 5 in the group. For jumping I go to an international showjumper who has represented Britain on the Nations Cup team, and get an hour in a group of 3 for £20. I'm not sure what you mean, either by 2 free hacks. Is this where she will get to go on an accompanied hack on a pony you are already paying for? That doesn't seem like especially good value.

As has been mentioned, there are so many easier ways of doing it. There are always people looking out for part-loaners and sharers, often for a lot less money, and a time commitment of 2-3 times a week. Another very good option is to find a riding school that is affiliated to the Pony Club. My sharer's daughter does this, and she rides there once a week (PC group lesson for £12) and then goes to rallies and camp in the school holidays. She is 8, and I would say her riding is not suffering through only going once a week! She rides here.

I rang and had to leave a message on the answer phone. Backinthebox that's exactly right re the hacks. You are right it was def emotional blackmail, she talked about how we would fit in now and be 'in the club'. We've always felt rather on the outside, been going for years. Now we know that it really is owners v non owners.

I think maybe we ought to look at pony club much more, then perhaps dd would fit in better and wouldnt feel like a second class citizen I think. I know it would be a wrench for her, but I'm beginning to see that it doesn't need to be like this. You get some where no one owns Ponys don't you?

yes of course! pony club centres

She was absolutely lovely and understanding when I phoned - phew :) all very professional. Dunno why I was being so :-/ she is a lovely lady, just rather assertive and says things very plainly and brings out the shy side of me.

So, for the mean time well keep things as they are and I'm going to make some enquiries as to if there's something suitable closer to home. Dd will be disappointed but that's the role of being a mum.

Btw, thank you all very much for your advice :)

Alameda, I've discovered one within walking distance of dds school ( which is in the next town to us) we are going to go and have a look and see what it's like.

Oh yes,can heartily recommend Pony Club centres.DD1 went to one and loved it,she did her Bronze Award and Road rider badge there.There is no one upmanship or side lining about not having your own pony there either,as everyone is the same.

[I know a bit of how you feel,I had 4 years of DD1 wanting to know why her friends had ponies and she didn't,but it did her good as she knows just how lucky she is to have dpony now.She also realises that she can't do all the after school things her friends do now she has dpony.]

Good luck.