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The tack room
Going barefoot?
annieapple7 · 28/03/2012 12:52
Hi Tackroom chums
I started a thread recently about the cost of keeping horses and a few of you suggested going barefoot. I was not keen but DHorse 2 (the ex racer) now has stinking thrush and previously had a corn so I am wondering would barefoot be better (and cheaper?)
It is more of a welfare thing really as he more I read about it, it seems shoes can cause more problems than they solve.
My worry is the weak TB feet combined with a fair bit of roadwork. And finding a barefoot trimmer in South Wales.
And - what is best for treating the thrush? Was using some kind of hoof hardener (keratex?) which is useless, so scrubbed out today with salt water.
I think I used Stockholm Tar in the olden days? Or Cornecresine?
Have washed my own hands five times and they still smell ewwww....
Treblesallround · 28/03/2012 13:35
One of ours occaisionally gets thrush. I scrub his feet thoroughly with hibiscrub in warm water, dry them thoroughly then spray liberally with purple spray. It clears it up really fast. I use Kevin Bacon hoof dressing for all of them (when I remember), which is excellent.
No advice about barefoot I'm afraid, all of ours are shod (DH's just in front), but several at our yard are barefoot and wear hoofboots for road work. Our farrier is very open minded about barefoot and always willing to advise so maybe your farrier would be a good starting point?
SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 28/03/2012 14:54
Hi. I was one of the sugestees. Firstly, Kreatex is a hoof wall hardener. Ideal for use on those softer TB hooves. Stockholm tar is more for plogging holes like seedy toe and the like. And Cornucrescine is for repair of hoof and hair. For thrush Id do exactly what Treble said. You could also puff some wound powder in there.
Re the barefoot, If you are doing a lot of road work, the feet should take care of themselves to a degree. Buy a double edged hoof knife, some hoof nippers, a file and some strong close filling gloves. If your feet are fairly good anyway, just keep them looking right and matching. We spoke to lots of people, watched youtube videos and bought barefoot trimmers DVDs and books.
Its not as hard as it looks, and if you are worried, just let the farrier have a peek every now and again. Mine was very positive mainly because he hates dealing with small ponies gave DF her first file, and said, just keep them fairly level and call him if I was ever feeling out of my depth.
Start off as I suggested before, by letting the shod hoof get quite long, before removing the shoes, then ask the farrier to trim them so that as much of the damaged nail hole part is removed. Any that are left will probably crack and crumble, but this is normal, the hoof is weakened by the holes. As they grow out and are trimmed or worn off, the hoof will improve. The horse will probably be a bit tenderfooted for a while, but that too is normal, they do get used to it. Imagine going barefoot yourself. It would be sore at the start.
You then just need to keep a good eye on how much hoof is showing, and if they get short, dont hack out for a week or so.
Hoof boots are excellent, and IMO much better for the horses than Metal shoes, and you only need put them on when hacking.
annieapple7 · 29/03/2012 15:13
Thanks Saggy you truly are a font of barefoot wisdom - I remember now your suggestions. Which hoof boots did you buy? Where did you buy the trimming stuff? I only hack out 2 or 3 times a week anyway. I will ask my farrier next time he is down but he is an old and traditional type and I can't imagine him being a barefoot advocate. It would be a bit like a turkey Christmas advocate.
annieapple7 · 29/03/2012 15:15
Thanks Treble. Have got hibiscrub for tonight plus toothbrush. I feel the need for some kind of gel to smear on knowing that it will stick.
Does only having shoes in front make much difference to the price of the farrier?
SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 29/03/2012 16:22
We haven't got any hoof boot wearers at the moment, but Old Mac aren't bad. Hoof tools came from the tack shop. They aren't dear. File £10, nippers £12 and knife £3. We never had a problem with farriers, ours were always so glad to be rid of the little ponies, they almost threw a Party!
Treblesallround · 30/03/2012 08:20
Our farrier charges for half a set and trims the backs free. Nell has to have shoes on the front to support and balance because of her sidebones, otherwise she would be fine barefoot.
AlpinePony · 30/03/2012 14:34
I would definitely recommend using an equine podiatrist rather than a farrier. You can either google or get a recommendation on the Kelly Marks website. The trouble with farriers is that whilst they're au fait with a pasture trim, they tend not to know shit about a working barefoot trim.
Personally I like a blend between Pete Ramsey/Jaime Jackson and Hiltrud Strasser - Hiltrud needs to calm the fuck down a bit with her scientific approach and Jaime/Pete (can't remember which one) leave the bars on which imo/ime does not work. But talk to your podiatrist and see what they say.
unobtanium · 03/04/2012 10:21
Hi annie, Red Horse Products do a brilliant smeary-on gunk called Field Stuff, which you can pack into central sulcus and any other manky bits of the frog (once you have dug out the flappy parts covering them with a very sharp hoof knife). It sticks!!!
Hibiscrub is great for knocking thrush on the head, as has been said. If you go barefoot though, you are supposed to renounce things like stockholm tar.
Properly trained equine podiatrists are sometimes hard to come by (there may be some near you but they may be extremely busy, this is what I have found and I have gone back to my old farrier for an easier life). You may be surprised how many farriers are coming over to barefoot way of thinking and I got very good results supervising mine closely -- if your farrier cannot do a pasture trim I would be amazed, and the trim you probably want, if you are going to adhere to AANHCP ie Pete Ramey/Jaime Jackson, is really not that far off from a good pasture trim. Make sure your farrier is very conservative with frog, sole and bars, and watch over him as he works. Watch to see if he looks for overall balance before starting work on the underside of the foot.
If there are serious foot balance issues, run down or overly long heels, contracted frogs etc, then maybe hold out for a podiatrist as farriers often do not see these problems in the same light as us barefoot lot!
If you want to do things yourself, to start off with, you can stick to maintaining the roll and taking off any flair in between the trimmer's visits, and gradually take over from him, if you like, as your confidence and skills come up.
Best hoof boots these days are Easiboot Gloves... I don't use boots any more though so have no direct experience, just going by the current talk. I had a bit of a faff with my boots and eventually gave up, sticking to soft ground when my horse was footy and gradually conditioning him over all types of ground.
Renegades were getting people excited some time back but seem to have gone very quiet.
Good luck!
annieapple7 · 03/04/2012 21:00
Thanks unobtanium - the hibiscrub as worked really well. Looked at those boots on you tube and they look really easy to use....I guess the summer is the best time to try going barefoot so I will let you know if I go for it...
sasamunde · 03/04/2012 21:24
I read once that shoes were originally put on horses because when they were stabled on damp bedding their hooves went soft! I would be all in favour of giving barefoot a go. I think be prepared to give it time - the first few months might cause some splits etc. but once you have a full new growth of hoof you should be able to ride on any terrain with no problems. You may want to add a dietary supplement ie biotin to help develop those super-hooves. And if your horse is stabled then perhaps use 1/2 rubber matting with hemp and 1/2 concrete to keep the feet as dry as you can.
SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 03/04/2012 21:38
Horses were shod because they were being used on roads. Even the Romans had hard surfaced roadways. Weve got 14 barefoot, all on Hemcore, and their feet are all fine. Even Dds Newfie, whos bed is always horrible!
AlpinePony · 04/04/2012 06:42
sasamunde that's somewhat my understanding too. Horses were kept within the city walls in an enclosed space and standing in their own dirty bedding was rotting their hooves.
Horses outside with movement don't need shoes and it's disingenuous to suggest they do because of roadwork.
The Houston police force horses are barefoot, to my knowledge they don't walk only on the grass verges!
Iron hooves on concrete roads will cause massive vibrations to reverberate through the toe bone (navicular bone), fetlock, cannon, knee and so forth causing irreparable long term damage.
Conversely a barefoot horse (with reasonably conditioned hooves) can trot happily on concrete - and for hours on tarmac (which is spongy in nature).
MightyNice · 04/04/2012 09:01
my barefoot pony does lots of road work though, he has magic feet
SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 04/04/2012 09:56
Actually I think we are both arguing different ends of the same subject. I'd imagine that both reasons apply, as one would have a knock on effect on the other!
Eggsits · 04/04/2012 10:01
I stopped shoeing my TB mare last year as she is no longer ridden. Her feet have always been crap and she has never needed a trim as they wear down on their own. I am considering letting my DD start riding her and was worried about stoney ground.
Might look into some boots and finding a barefoot trimmer to check her out.
Very interesting thread
AlpinePony · 04/04/2012 10:59
Not arguing saggy. :)
I love the whole barefoot movement and am so glad it seems to be gaining credence. I'm at a fairly formal German yard with a lot of people who compete in various disciplines - I'd say as many as 50% are barefoot - it's very encouraging!
Anyway, to get back to OP, I have in the past treated thrush by letting a drop or two run down the sides of the frog as it has anti bacterial and anti final properties. Thrush is mostly found around the frog - especially when it's contracted. If you choose to go barefoot her frog will increase in width but it will never be as large as if she'd never been shod.
QuietTiger · 04/04/2012 20:45
Where in South Wales are you, OP? I use a fantastic Equine Podiatrist (solved major issues with my boys) and I am based in Cardiff. I know that the valleys, Newport and Abergaveny area are also covered. I'm happy to recommend if that helps?
AlpinePony · 04/04/2012 21:24
drop of tea-tree oil - not just random things, like er... tea for example.
Pixel · 06/04/2012 21:46
I always use a farrier as I'm perfectly happy that mine knows what he's doing (horse has never worn shoes, has great feet) so it doesn't affect me, but those of you who don't might want to be aware of something I read today. Apparently the NFU Mutual has warned that they may reject claims relating to feet if the horse has received hoof care from anyone but a registered farrier and knowing what insurance companies are like it wouldn't surprise me it others followed suit (they'll do anything to avoid paying out!). Read it on Horse and Hound forum if anyone is interested.
Wolfiefan · 06/04/2012 21:58
Barehoof performance. Based in Gloucestershire but perhaps could advise?
annieapple7 · 09/04/2012 14:38
Thanks everyone....QuietTiger I am in Porthcawl so would love your equine podiatrist's number. DHorse's feet now smell of grass - lovely!
Loshad · 13/04/2012 22:50
very much not a new ager here, but about 3 years ago at the end of the eventing season even my blacksmith was very keen for dmare to have her shoes off (she was on eggbars plus wedges due to chronic intermitment lameness so used to pull them off at nearly every comp, and there was literally nothing left to nail onto).
She had sept to dec off (work plus hooves were knackered) and then i started walk work again, dfarrier was not responding to calls at this point (can't say i blame him as dmare also needed sedating to be shod). I kept going with the fitness work, hooves looked ok, read a bit on t'internet, kept riding (btw many years ago used to hunt dpony without shoes), entered a few comps on surfaces, dmare ok, decided to bite bullet and keep going. 2 and a half years plus from original shoe removal dmare is still unshod, she hasn't been lame since (hope i won't regret that comment) and hacks out - roads and tracks, competes on surfaces and grass at dressage, sj and ode's - up to BE100s.
We haven't seen the farrier since , i bought a rasp, but use it rarely. Her hooves look fab, heels much better, need to be a bit careful re amount of roadwork, vet is really impressed and my footcarebill has dropped from £160/6 weeks to basically zero!!
AlpinePony · 14/04/2012 06:57
loshad Wow! Great story! Did she have any transition issues when the shoes first came off?
My friend is kind of halfway to barefoot now with silicone shoes... Trouble is, you don't get silicone nails. :(
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