SEN question (from parent - hoping for wide range of experience!)

[drspouse]

I'm the parent of a DS who is 11 and in a specialist SEMH school.
On his EHCP (which I think is a good provision) it says he should spend time with playground buddies/other children who have better social skills than him.
Only thing is, at his tiny school there are no such children, for obvious reasons, and he finds calm neurotypical children easier to get on with than his classmates (though he's relaxing into the group after a bully was removed).

I am wondering if anyone knows if there is such a thing as a partnership/reciprocal exchange programme with specialist and mainstream schools? We aren't thinking of moving him just now - it would either be something to talk about setting up or else looking for a school that does this for the future.

His school actually has lovely grounds and facilities and would be a great resource for mainstream years 5/6/7 to burn off some energy - I'm thinking of a couple of schools near us (one primary, one secondary) that are on main roads with astroturf and concrete (the primary) or a few muddy playing fields and a gym that's alternately roasting and freezing (the secondary).

I have Googled partnerships between mainstream and specialist schools but they mainly seem to be for SENCOs to learn from each other or for pupils who are transitioning to mainstream, which he isn't likely to unless he gets more comfortable around larger groups of children.

I know some SEN schools share facilities eg swimming pools with. SEN chn from mainstream schools.Occasionally split placement is offered for chn through logistically this can be difficult.Some SEN schools are co-located/in partnership with mainstream schools which are very close.In really terms, the extent of. partnership often depends on staffing, time, goodwill and if senior staff of each school happen to align.If there is no existing partnership, accessing activities outside school to meet peers is also worth considering as sometimes the chn allowed time away from a mainstream school are not necessarily those you'd need!

Unfortunately DS won't participate in activities with other children outside school (he will e.g. swim in a 1:1 lesson but not a group lesson, and he used to enjoy Cubs but as with many other groups, the leaders decided he wasn't participating enough because he often just watched/went out of the hall when it was noisy), and he tends to get asked to leave, or to cling to us.

It seems like a very difficult ask for a number of reasons.

1. The other school's parents would be unlikely to agree due to risk of incidents.
2. The school would need to allocate staff and time to walk the children to your ds school.

You have posted before about your ds lashing out or getting angry. I can't see many mainstream schools volunteering pupils for this reason.

You could ask his school to organise joint sporting or other enrichment activities perhaps. My dd's school attend local sporting tournaments so she then meets children from other schools. The other obvious one is a club or outside activity.

You could ask whether your ds could visit another school with staffing to supervise. This is more likely to be accepted. The senco at your ds school could ask. Does his school think this is a good idea or is it just something that is put into an EHCP because it sounds good in theory?

I actually think it would be more of a risk if DS (and indeed some of his classmates) were to visit another school than if a small group came to visit his school, unless we get to the stage where he's likely to be integrated back into mainstream.
He won't (as I've said) participate in outside activities with other children (or he gets asked to leave, in some cases due to behaviour which stems from being uncomfortable but in other cases because he "just isn't participating" or "isn't benefitting" or "isn't enjoying himself").

Then I honestly can't see any mainstream school doing this.

Sorry forgot the other half of the question.
It is something we've been suggesting and which was implemented in his first mainstream school and helped him. The SALT put it in her report and it's been in the EHCP in every version but has never been implemented and when we ask why it isn't happening they wave their hands and say "can't he go to football club" or "there must be a club he can go to" which they have no leads/information on, or they tell us about one that's for under 5s/over 13s/online/in another city.

I am guessing they can't provide it therefore the reasons I have outlined. You therefore have a choice of
dealing with it outside of school which you say hasn't worked
Moving him to another school
Removing it from the ehcp as it can't be provided.

Would that be typical, to remove a provision the child needs because the school can't provide it?
I was originally asking in case anyone had experience so I could make suggestions to the school.

Well the only other options would be to move school or to come up with another strategy that will help social skills. I suppose that the school could instead work on your ds social skills by helping him to interact with his peers at his school or by working on helping him to join a club that might interests him.

They are doing pretty well at helping him work with his peers at school but he doesn't find them easy and they can be a bit reactive with him (though he's doing much better as he generally is only reactive if attacked).
I think we will go with "you need to find him somewhere or somehow to provide this provision".

They may come back and say we cant because there are no mainstream schools able to help. Then what? In all honesty it sounds like you asked for that to be in. The salt said OK that sounds like a good idea and it has stayed in since. They are working on his social skills. Having time to play with kids without sn is not the need, it is one possible strategy to help with his social skills.

We didn't ask for it to be in, it was put in when he was in mainstream as they could see he benefitted from (and this is pretty common) time with children who have better skills than him. Adults really can't directly teach social skills as a subject - children learn these from their peers. Luckily his previous teachers and his SALT recognise this, but his current school just say "yeah, that would be nice, meh" like they are saying "reading? yeah but we'd have to buy books and we can't be bothered".

I am not sure if it is about them being 'bothered'. You say in other threads yourself that your ds is very challenging and is 'on a trigger both at home and school'. Why do you think another school is going to provide a peer group for him? You say that he does not cope or feel comfortable in after school clubs. My own children attended a specialist school. Sometimes it is a trade off. It was the best fit. It wasn't perfect but no school is.

I suspect you are reading much older threads as he's doing well in school behaviour wise except for a period when he was being bullied.
And I'm not (as I've said here) suggesting a move to mainstream at the moment, just asking if this kind of partnership exists so I can look at examples.

Whilst some mainstream schools may work in partnership with specialist- we have local trusts which have both types of schools as members- this tends to be at an organisational level as opposed to a pupil level. Unless you have a mainstream school with a specialist unit attached, there would be little interaction between the pupils and especially not at the individual level you are looking for.
I think cansu is correct, at the moment, it's a trade off and you may need to look at how you can develop social skills outside the school setting.The school will do " best endeavours " with the children they have but can't import children they don't have.

Agree with other points raised however nice an idea it maybe-important to remember a lot of mainstream schools will have chn with their own social needs to cater for, even of not in same circumstance as your son

you may need to look at how you can develop social skills outside the school setting.
Yeah thanks. Of course we haven't been trying to do that for the last 7 years... and being told he can't stay at any out of school clubs. But thanks for that NOVEL idea.

My experience is out of date but when I was your son's age or a little older, I was in a Guide pack that integrated children from the local boarding school (children with various disabilities) with children who lived in the local area (Iike me). I don't know if anything like that exists now. I learnt a lot from the experience! Maybe PHAB? My daughter (ASD, ADHD, in a mainstream primary) is in a music theatre group that while it does not have integration as an explicit aim, does very well at catering to a variety of children. My daughter is certainly not the only SEN one there and they manage others with some SEMH/post adoption issues.

I know this is very area dependent and obviously depends what interests your son has.

Where are you OP? There's definitely schools like this in London. However, as a parent of a DD who was always used as a positive role model, I think you'll find it's quite difficult to implement in reality. The school can't force another child to sit or play with yours, and even if you do get one that's very quiet and won't complain, their parents will once they hear about it. Sorry, it's a tricky position you're in.

Thanks foxes, I'm aware it's not ideal for children to be seen as "role models" which is why I'm more interested in any examples of partnerships where both schools get something from it -we are in the rural North of England and as I say DS' school has amazing outdoor space and facilities that none of the village primaries or town-centre secondaries have so this would be a great space for a lot of children from those schools to take advantage of.

@drspouse I understand what you mean. Unfortunately a special SEMH school will have very strict pupil to staff numbers so the mingling you're imagining is close to impossible.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing legally binding about staff pupil ratios (not like preschools) so it comes down to individual pupils' EHCPs (and if they have a 1:1 that person will already be there) nor will there be for children from a mainstream school given they won't be in KS1.

Anyway we need to get brainstorming with school about how to provide this provision though it's a shame I can't present any examples.

Maybe you're right about staff ratios but there will be a reason those children all need a calm and small environment and bringing a load of mainstream kids will be defeating the purpose. I imagine the risk assessments for this for both the semh and mainstream schools will be complicated. The schools I know that did this are all ASD bases and the kids tend to struggle with the periods they have in mainstream.
Have you looked into possibly getting him into an ASC in the mainstream school?
With ehcps yes it is a legally binding document and they must provide it, but if there is nothing very specific in section F to cater to this need, you'll have a futile battle to get this actioned. You'd need the wording to be very specific as 'access to positive role model' is very woolly. Better social skills is also very woolly as that's so subjective. He may well have the best social skills at his current school therefore this needs to be amended at next annual review to something that's possible to implement and monitor with targets. Provision needs to be quantified against need and it doesn't sound like this is and I feel this is where your frustrations lie. And the schools actually. They are expected to come up with a magic solution that should've been listed in the ehcp.

I'm not sure where you get "a load" from... but anyway as I say we will be brainstorming with the school. It is very specific and it would have worked in mainstream (had the schools actually bothered to do what it said in the EHCP). Neither I nor the EHCP say "access to positive role model". You said that.