Any specialist school/SEMH teachers?

[drspouse]

I'm wondering how to put this with school/what's fair.
DS is in a 10-16 SEMH school and is in Y6. He's not quite 11 and is in a class of 4 with one small/young Y7, one withdrawn Y7 and a 13 year old who attacks him and calls him horrible names.
DS can be aggressive and does call other children "dumb" and similar but is generally afraid of other children.
School say "they are both struggling" "six of one" and "we always stop X when he comes after DS". DS is afraid of him and likened him to the bully Brenda Payne in Christmasaurus. School say there are lots of reactive children and he can't move to a class without any.

Second issue is with the use of screen time. It's used as an incentive to e.g. get into class, finish work, as a break. He's allowed to play games on Poki (where you can find shooting/gun games, and I've seen him play these in class).
He's also allowed to watch gamers on YouTube (I have a separate thread on this). He's got a couple of favourite channels that include GTA etc, and he's come home saying he's watched them/a TA has game Y at home etc. These are not awful first person shooter type games but e.g. he talks about pushing people off buildings which is a theme etc.

What would be fair to ask? We just don't think this would be appropriate for a primary school. Would children in mainstream secondary be allowed to watch pretty much any gamer videos they wanted/play games with no age restriction in e.g. Y7??

We use a lot of tech controls at school e.g. screen time, Family Link, only videos we allow. We think it's our job to keep him safe, and to let him know we are keeping him safe, but what exactly can we ask school to do? What would happen in your school if you teach this group?

I am sorry to say this but every single thread you post is a complaint about your child's school. From memory your ds has been to a few and you are unhappy with every single one in many ways. No school is perfect especially with a child with SN (I have two dc who attended a specialist school). I would recommend that you start picking your battles.

SEMH schools are very difficult environments to work in, but I would not be impressed by the things you have described. Is the school part of a MAT? I would raise my concerns with the CEO if so.

Unfortunately many SEMH schools have deep-rooted historical issues and many are on improvement journeys.

@cansu thank you for your input. This is his fourth primary school. He is a hard child to deal with we know but that doesn't mean schools don't have to take their jobs seriously. We have already had some issues resolved (inappropriate behaviour by teens in his taxi) and let some others go which would be an issue in mainstream (teasing about his clothes - they don't wear uniform and he dresses younger than the others).
This is why we are asking what's reasonable to ask for. He is our child. Not theirs.
@Ilookatthefloor it's an independent. Many of the children are LAC and we suspect they are not really used to parents like us, there are other issues with academics which would be OK if he was happy and safe but... we aren't sure he is.

Of course you want your son to be safe and happy. However having read some of your other threads over the years, you are extremely hard to satisfy. You complain about other children who have similar needs to your ds but when your ds is nasty to another child you are angry with the school and blame them for not understanding his needs. I have even seen you suggest that alterations could be made to the building in a mainstream primary to enable it to meet your ds needs for his own space. You have tried numerous mainstream primaries which all semm to end ultimately in conflict and or exclusion. I am very supportive of send and have in my time had to battle for the right provision. However, I honestly could not cope with the level of conflict you sustain in each of the schools your child has attended. Have all these schools been staffed by people who don't take their jobs seriously?

@ccansu are you one of these people who thinks it's OK for a child to be physically attacked by another child as long as the child is a "bad" child? Even if that child never physically retaliates (or is physical to that child at all)?
If so, you can sod right off. My child has just as much right to be safe in school as a child without disabilities. Do we say "oh it's OK for the teacher to hit my child because my child hit first/called him a name"?
If not, then perhaps you should contemplate whether it's sensible to put an easily triggered child in a class with another child who's aggressive.

Drspouse are you someone who cannot cope with anyone disagreeing with you?
I am not sure where you have come up with the idea that I think violence is OK from child to child or even more bizarrely from teacher to child!
You have posted about computer games!

I any case I should have realised it was completely pointless to suggest that you consider how you deal with your child's teachers. I have two dcs with asd. My ds ad sometimes my dd have very challenging behaviour and yet I manage to have decent relationships with school staff and with carers. That doesn't mean I always agree nor that I have never made complaints. However, I pick my battles and also do sometimes accept that my dc's behaviour can mean that the outcome won't always be how I would like it to be. I will give you an example. A few weeks ago, my dd bit and scratched a TA at her specialist school. The school let me know and explained that my dd preferred a different member of staff when going out of school. I could have made a huge fuss and insisted that she get the member of staff that she prefers or I could accept that it isn't always possible and that there may well be other reasons why she couldn't have what she needed at that time. In any case, school said they would try and make sure she had plenty of warning if it was a different person. My dd also lost her reward for biting the staff member that day. I supported the school. I am guessing that you wouldn't have.

As for putting kids together in classes. There will be several reasons why the school have grouped these kids together. It may well be that the other classes also have reactive and aggressive children. Why do you think that your child's needs trump everyone else's? Yes the staff need to manage it and might decide to keep the kids apart. However, it can't always be exactly what you want.

perhaps you should contemplate whether it's sensible to put an easily triggered child in a class with another child who's aggressive.

But as the school had already explained to you there will be aggressive, sensitive and difficult to handle children in every class. That's the nature of the school he is now in.
They can't build a whole class around the needs of one child, they have to balance things as best they can.
They have already put him in a class of only 4 children, two of whom aren't causing him an issue so it really sounds as if they're doing their best.
As PP have suggested, please try to work with the school rather than against them. Your ds will ultimately be the one who suffers if you don't.

DS however no longer trusts the teachers (he's started telling us the teachers are calling him names, and honestly though it's not them - we hope, though another local school has had a teacher in court for physical and verbal abuse - it's also not anything he's come up with before so my bet it is from school). We need him to trust us and when we say "we can't stop this boy from hurting you and the teachers won't either" what does that say to him?

As I said, we ARE picking our battles. I don't work in a specialist school and all my friends' DCs go to mainstream and all the things I've mentioned would be a huge issue in mainstream primary. I just don't know what's supposed to be different, and why, and what else we can do to keep DS safe.

You will end up moving him on. If you truly believe that the teachers are calling him names and allowing other kids to hurt him then you should do so. There is however the possibility that this is untrue. Again either all the schools your ds has attended are full of dreadful, unprofessional staff or there is another explanation. Could it be that ds struggles to understand other people and is not always a reliable narrator? Could you decide to engage with school staff rather than assume the worst? I am not sure you can as you simply don't trust anyone. Anyone who gives you unwelcome news about your ds is branded as either untrustworthy or just wrong.

I have also noted that you have spent a huge amount of time and energy insisting on a mainstream education for your ds even when several school placements have ended in the same way with staff telling you his needs can't be met there. You did not want a SEMH provision and it isn't a surprise that you are now picking this provision apart too. You have also stated that there does not appear to be the right provision out there. If this is true then you have to pick the closest to right and live with that. It can't be good for your dc to see that you have no confidence in these placements either.

Op I haven't followed your story so only have this to go on but it seems to me that you might all be happier and more relaxed with a homeschool arrangement. Maybe involving 1-1 tutoring.
Is that something to explore?

@cansu you aren't reading what I've written nor addressing my actual questions.

@icanwearwhatiwant unfortunately since we both work, including outside the home, we can't have him at home nor can we teach him.

Which questions?

There are several questions in the OP. Do you teach in a similar setting? SEMH/mixed primary and secondary classes? Or just primary?

Semh settings are like this.
Sounds like your son may be better in mainstream with support.
I've worked in mainstream secondary and briefly semh. I would always avoid semh for my own DC due to the students they would be with. It is extreme.

I don't know the history, but I think you do have to accept SEMH placements are very different to mainstream. A lot of the things you describe wouldn't happen in mainstream, but your son also wouldn't get to be in a class of 4 students with a teacher and TA and there might still be aggressive students in his class. I think if there are particular videos you don't want him to watch it games you don't want him to play, it would be reasonable to raise this with the school and see what they come back with.

The other thing to understand about alternative provision is that a lot of students there will be violent and reactive, or difficult for your DS to be in a class with for some reason. They all have significant needs, or they wouldn't be at the school. The child your DS is in a class with may well be the least worst option, and I think it's unlikely the school will organise class moves at parental request.

It sounds like mainstream hasn't worked in a variety of schools and you say you can't homeschool, so if this placement isn't suitable, what is the next option? If you really don't trust the teachers, I think you need to withdraw your DS, but what happens then? Is mainstream secondary an option? If so, would it be possible to home school just until the summer holidays?

I teach in an all through school. I have two children both of whom went to a specialist independent for children with asd and associated conditions. This included children with semh. I was also a governor of a special school.

There is only one question in your op about whether the school should allow your dc to watch games with any violence in them or any you tube gamer videos.
The answer depends. No they shouldn't show things with an age rating over his age. So no 18 games but I am not sure that they are. People talking about games that are 18s but not actually showing the game is different. Reading between the lines the school are trying to motivate your dc to engage by following his interests. This is common. If you think the content is inappropriate then tell the school that. You will also need to tell your ds that you have done so and that he can no longer watch videos with these you tubers or play the Poki game. Perhaps you could suggest which games he is allowed to play that will be motivating as the school may find that your ds is unhappy and unwilling to engage.

This comes back to what I have already said about picking your battles and considering the child you have. There have been many things over the years that I have accepted that I never would have thought I would agree to pre kids. I have had to consider carefully which things are worth the fallout and the consequences. You only seem to see whether you are right. You continue to talk about your friends kids in mainstream and what happens there. Your ds cannot fintion in mainstream so in a way it is irrelevant what happens there. I am sure that lots of things happen in his semh school that would lead to exclusion in mainstream. The 3xample of dd biting and scratching would have led to me being called into school in mainstream. In her specialist school I was emailed to let me know and that was that.

At some point the cycle of schools on itself will have an impact on your ds. How can he develop trusting relationships with staff if you can't do so and keep moving him?

Here is a question for you.
Why do you think that none of the schools you have chosen have been suitable for him?

We have never moved him on purpose because we didn't like the school. I'm not sure where you got that idea since you seem to be so intimately familiar with my DS story.

You don't seem to be answering the question I asked.

When you say you didn't move him on purpose, does that mean that he was excluded from mainstream? If so, that does obviously limit your options at least until secondary.

The SEMH school are very likely telling the truth that there isn't another suitable class for your DS or the other child to be in. I can't imagine they are keeping this situation going for the fun of it. So either you trust the school to keep your DS safe or you don't. And if you don't, it sounds like you have very limited options about what to do next.

I think I would be focusing my energy on finding a place I was really happy with for September if you haven't already?

School 1 illegally offrolled him. He was doing OK with a mix of in and out of class and a small group of friends but they told us we had to move him, and we didn't know they weren't allowed to do that.
School 2 excluded him and was found guilty of disability discrimination.
School 3 was a PRU and was never permanent. Obviously both we and the school were looking to move him on but pandemic, full schools etc etc.
Current school is the only one that would take him, but we couldn't have moved him there earlier as it's only from Y5.
It seems like the bar for safeguarding is at floor level for children with SEN hence our worries. We rejected one SEMH school on the grounds they'd had a teacher in court for child abuse AND a child with signs of self harm missed, commit suicide, but the LEA just shrugged when we told them the reason.
I'm not expecting compassion or understanding though. Don't worry, I know I won't get them. It's all our/DS fault.

Sorry @Postapocalypticcowgirl I was struggling to reply to more than one poster, it's an app glitch I think.
We were originally thinking a move around Y8 or Y9 would be good because there are no children who have got GCSE above 4 (and that was one pupil in Art one year) in the last 5 years, and this would also coincide with DD moving to secondary so if we needed to move house that would be a good time. But it may have to be sooner.
We really liked two mainstreams with specialist units but one is in the wrong county (and admissions don't work like specialist schools), and one may decide he's got the wrong diagnosis/needs.

I think, if it were me, I'd be aiming for a move in Y7. To be clear, I don't think it's all your fault/all your DS's fault- but I'm trying to think realistically about what your options are. For clarity, I don't work in SEMH, but I have a friend who does, and I've taught a few children who've moved (successfully, bar one) from a SEMH placement to mainstream (and also a few who moved the other way).

I don't think the SEMH place sounds ideal by any stretch, and I think I would be trying for the two schools you've mentioned from September. I thought you could still get an out of county school named on an ECHP? Particularly if you live close to the county border. And with the other, it's worth trying?

My understanding is getting a place within a specialist "base" (that's what they are called around here) is difficult as places are very limited, so my concern would be that no space would be available in Y8/Y9 if you don't try for Y7 entry. And then I suppose you have the option of moving again if it doesn't work out.

I agree the bar for safeguarding in some of these schools is very low, and some of them are very poor- but also, knowing the sort of children who are usually placed in these sorts of schools, it's hard to imagine they have a class (even of 4) in an appropriate age range which doesn't have a highly reactive child in it. Sorry.

The out of county school was very firm that their LEA allocates places in the base to their children only. Nobody else has been able to explain the legalities so I'm not sure it would be possible.
The in-county one is new so I don't know if they are full of current Y7 or what their profile is. My hope would also be that the mainstream would be more clued up/straightforward about internet use. DS doesn't cope well with strictness around fidgeting/politeness/uniform but he accepts internet rules happily.

I think DS might cope better with a reactive child who wasn't 3 years older/two heads taller TBH.