Is criticising other staff common?

[Curtains778]

I'm a class TA in a year 4 class. We have a large number of children who struggle to behave in class (about 7). Some are because they have very dysfunctional homes and some because of things like autism. SLT doesn't provide much in terms of backup, but I think we've done a good job. Older TAs have made many comments to the teacher (who is early 20s) and I like 'they won't be behaving like that with me'. I find it so undermining for her and the teacher is now crying about it a lot.

Is this undermining common in schools? I've only worked at the one school and it has been like this for years.

Yes. It’s very annoying. And in my experience, very easy to look at a situation from the outside and think ‘I could do better’ but actually classroom management is one of those optical illusions where it is waaaay more complex than it looks. It sounds like you are being a great support to the teacher. Tell her to ignore them. If they think they could do it, the option is always there for them to go and train. Then they’d get the eye opener they need!

It's really disappointing as this year has been a lot of work for the both of us. We've really tried out hardest with the current school behaviour policy and the limited backing we get.

I totally agree with this! Everyone thinks they could do better until they actually have to do it. I tend to just ignore the shitty comments. But I do think it’s common sadly.

Yep. My partner teacher does this to me constantly (luckily for her, there are no behaviour problems/SEN in her class, just mine). Her favourite thing to do is to say one particularly badly behaved child in my class was 'an angel' in her assembly/maths class/whatever. It's total bollocks of course, but wearing and demoralising nonetheless.

It is in my school, sadly. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard colleagues making catty comments about other colleagues behind their backs - and have no doubt they probably make such comments about me too when I'm out of earshot.

Oh this is such a common thing! I’ve got a colleague just like this who seems to not understand how rude it is! She’s a great teacher and the kids love her, but it’s so unhelpful whenever you’ve had a crappy lesson to hear ‘oh they’re good as gold for me!’; ‘Oh they do that to you a lot don’t they’ or even worse ‘they can’t make it to anyones lesson today (some big reason) but they’ve requested to come to mine’.
‘They’re never rude to me’ ; ‘is t funny how they can be so different for different teachers…’. Yes. Hilarious. Thanks for pointing that out endlessly!
Drives me absolutely nuts.

Oh yes, this is absolutely a thing and it drives me nuts too.
The thing is "she's good as gold for me" is almost certainly not true and/or that member of staff is making exceptions and allowing things that the main class teacher doesn't have the luxury of doing,

We have a member of staff who takes certain children for 1-1 sessions once or twice a week. She's very fond of telling class teachers how good they are for her and how they tell her she's the best teacher in the school. Completely missing the fact that she sees them once a week to ice biscuits, play with sand and have hot chocolate.

It's so rude and really demoralising. The joke is that the worst offender has children in her class who won't even come into the classroom. Some of our most difficult pupils have had major life changes so are of course going to be more challenging. I hate seeing the classroom teacher cry, it's such a horrible way to end the year.

How do you deal with it? I spoke to my husband (he works in professional services) and he said it would be massively looked down upon if people were constantly saying how they could do better.

You could just tell her how unprofessional it is and how it is absolutely no reflection on her teaching at all. Being a good teacher is really hard work. She’s done an amazing job to keep these kids engaged all year without giving up on them - that takes tenacity, strength and compassion.
this year has been incredibly tough. Kids haven’t had the experiences they would usually have had that would have helped them to regulate in classrooms. I’m in secondary and my ks3 classes at the beginning of the year just had no embedded knowledge of appropriate classroom behaviour: stacks of calling out; walking around; arguing; constant hands up to complain about x,y,z doing a,b,c - it’s been exhausting! So god knows how you’ve managed in primary - you are super heroes in my view!
get a couple of guns in a can and have a toast together after hours on your last day - it sounds like you both deserve it!

Cans!!! Not guns - whoops!!

Try again - GIN in a can, not gun!

Also, if Remind get that they are TAs and, although we’d love it if everyone thought we were doing a great job, they have no bearing on her appraisals of anything. If SLT are happy enough there’s no reason to worry or consider it a valid judgement. The fact is, we can all squash unwanted ‘behaviour’ and tell kids off hairdryer style, but how does that help them learn what TO DO or to develop trusting relationships - especially for the kids you describe. A certain level of patience and having the long term view is required with challenging behaviour. For what it’s worth, I think you and your class teacher have made positive choices here with lots of thought about the children’s background/need. This stuff takes time - especially T the moment. Could you remind her of some success you’ve had this term that couldn’t have been possible in September - to show her how much progress you’ve all made? That has helped me sometimes to realise that things have improved even if they aren’t solved.

Unfortunately schools are full of these types. She’ll get used to it. I had a colleague say something similar to me this week. I’ve picked up a pretty difficult class from her. They are awful, not so much in terms of behaviour but very arrogant, entitled and rude. Apparently she thought they were all delightful! I said that my expectations were clearly higher because I didn’t think answering back and telling me I was a terrible teacher because I hadn’t learnt all 30 of their names after teaching them for 3 lessons was the behaviour of a delightful class! 🙄 These ‘superior teachers’ tend to fall into two categories; those who have been teaching for years and can’t be taught anything new or the new teachers who think they can save the world and the rest of us have clearly been doing it wrong for all these years. I remember in my a fellow NQT when I was in my NQT year actually going to the head and suggesting that he could help him sort out behaviour in the school. I think he lasted about 3 years max in teaching!

My go to response tends to be “maybe you just have lower standards as to what you accept, whereas I see it as a problem”

Oh yes, very common.

Just before I startedy PGCE a friend of mine, who was an experienced teacher, said to me 'teachers who say 'child X behaves well for me' are c*nts'. It's a phrase that's stuck with me and helped me through some tough times!!!

Just about to start my PGCE so this is all very useful to read.

I've just made a mental list of all the teachers I know who say this. Every single one of them an absolute arsehole!

Happens in my school too. Teacher who's taking my class in September said she's having to "start training them". Maybe people don't realise what they're saying?!

A teacher said it to me when I first started, luckily quite a bold TA was there that is in both our lessons and responded saying “yes but smokealarm follows school policies with them rather than letting them get away with murder”

Thays when I planned my comeback of “yes but you have lower standards of what is acceptable than me”

May I add: oh blah is so lovely/ a delight / easy etc, when all this staff member has had to do is oversee an activity child loves that I have set up to cover time I'm away.
And, Blah is no problem - nothing phases me. Ah piss off why don't you!!
I must stop now before my blood pressure rises!

Yes, I have seen this a lot. It's very annoying

This is cheering me up no end! I've been teaching a long time, with colleagues I know very well and don't tend to have this superior attitude, but this year I've worked with a student teacher who constantly bigs herself up, in a bouncy, 'Tiggerish' way. It's very obvious that it all comes from her own insecurities, bit sad really, but annoying nevertheless. It is impossible to help her to make progress, eg:with behaviour, as she says everything is perfect.

Yes this is rampant in the teaching industry. I have been a secondary school teacher for a decade now. For some reason so many teachers are so insecure and have a great sense of urgency to constantly fend and prove. That being said I want to be clear that there are also some wonderful people in this industry and I have made life long friends because from such great colleagues I have the pleasure of working with.

Behaviour management is something I pride myself on and is by far my best strength. When NQT/ECT students come to our school the coordinator sends them to me if they need help and guidance with behaviour management. I have never, in my entire career, boasted to anyone about my behaviour management. It really grates against me when I hear an experienced teacher respond to an inexperienced teacher “Oh that kid is wonderful for me in my lessons.” It’s very crushing for the other person to hear and why on Earth would you want to make someone feel like that? The only possible outcome for these comments is a state of pure negativity for the other teacher. This is so counterproductive and what amazes me the most, in my opinion, is that it makes the boaster look so insecure and sad.

@Curtains778 it really saddens me to hear that teacher is so upset from these unhelpful comments. If they wouldn’t be behaving like that in that teachers lessons maybe that teacher can give some meaningful and constructive feedback to that poor teacher?

As for the SLT that also sounds like a sad state of affairs as well. It really does sound like there is a lack of responsibility in that teacher’s department. If that was in my department I would straightaway be pulling the offending teacher to one side and there be a very brief and blunt conversation that those comments are not welcome in my department. It worries me that no one has done that. If there was a new teacher crying in my department I would be mortified especially if the reason for them being upset was my own staff!!! What a joke. I really hope it resolves.

On further reflection maybe... the teacher is stating a fact. Maybe Child X does engage positively for that teacher. Charisma, dynamics, personality, pace, timing, are all influencing factors. Having stated this - criticisms of this type are unhelpful and unnecessary in my opinion!