How many Personal Mentors on the PGCE are fit to teach at all?

[YetanotherPGCEdropout]

There appears to be so many people who drop out of the PGCE due to bullying from Placement Personal Mentors.
I know from experience that the University does not offer the student who is being bullied by their PM, any support whatsoever. In fact, unless the student leaves the PGCE very quickly, any requests for help from the University will be met with "we deem you unfit to teach".... which isn't very helpful.

Having read so many reports of PM's on Placements being absolute lunatics, my question is... "Who is testing whether THEY are fit to teach? Let alone train the next generation of teachers.."

I had better add that my domestic responsiblities left me exhausted before I arrived at my placement each morning- so - that didn't help the situation.

Have you also seen the many threads about lesson observations, OFSTED, performance management reviews, etc? That’s who/what is testing teachers ability to teach.

I’ve seen your other thread and it seems like the real issue is your university and how well the mentors can mentor. That’s down to the university.

Yes - that clarifies things actually.
It is the ability to MENTOR that seems to be the problem.

I am not sure that the ability to "mentor" is down to the University.
It seems to me that each of the Personal Mentor's in the various schools that get funded for accepting trainee teachers, DO have a reputation.
Why not simply have a "Fitness to be a Mentor" moderator?
That way, those Personal Mentors who have a reputation for causing PGCE students to give up, will be weeded out of the systme.

To address the balance a bit, my daughter has just finished her teacher training year (a SCITT run by a consortium of local schools). She has had three excellent mentors - one in each of the schools she worked in, and one who was the central SCITT lead for her subject and was based at a third school.

Based on her experience, I would definitely recommend a SCITT rather than a traditional university-based PGCE (she gets a PGCE so it's the best of both worlds in my view).

Perhaps she has been lucky, but I suspect it's also because the schools in the consortium expect to recruit many of the trainees and therefore take a real interest in their training and their welfare.

In my school, I decide who the mentors are. It's my responsibility to train and support them and if a trainee has an issue with their mentor, it's up to me to resolve it.
I'm the one with responsibility for "weeding" both mentors and students.

Do you mean the school based mentor? They're just...normal teachers wherever I have worked. In the old days they'd have gone on training but now it's just one of the extra jobs you just have to get on with alongside everything else. I've not met that many unpleasant teachers in my time so can't imagine there's a huge number of unpleasant mentors. I'm primary though, are you primary or secondary?

You get that they don't get any time to mentor or money or anything basically? You want to see people sacked from mentoring when it isn't their job anyway. Increasingly people are saying no to mentoring or letting students take their classes because the quality of students has plummeted. Any warm body with 9k to spend seems to be criteria and arsy, rude, ungrateful and unable to cope with any feedback the norm.

Is it at all possible ever that the problem might be you?

We've had some fab ones mind you - if you're not their first placement they've already been offered a job by their first placement school though what with being as rare as the proverbial hen's teeth.

Do personal mentors in schools get funded? How much money do they get?

i haven’t read your other thread, but to add to points already made on this one.
victim mentality is not a suitable characteristic for a teacher, extrapolation from your own particular experience to lots/many of mentors are bullies is not helpful, and almost certainly untrue.
Your own domestic circumstances are also not relevant. To the child in care, the child whose parent is in prison, whose parents are in the middle of a messy divorce etc etc, we as teachers are the constant. You need to be in the classroom, fully focused and thinking about the day ahead, maximising the life chances of every kid you run across, not making excuses before the day has even started. Of course it is possible you cannot manage that, in which case, then yes, you are unfit to teach.

Do personal mentors in schools get funded? How much money do they get?
Schools get funded. We don't pay our mentors.

I'm also a bit unclear who 'mentors' are now. We'll have one person per school like MrsHamlet who will have varied titles, in my trainee day it was professional tutor, who hopefully gets a little bit of time for coordinating weekly meets with trainees/ects and emails round begging if anyone is willing to have a trainee in their class. That person can't 'mentor' all of the students etc but the people who agree to let the student be in some of their classes, (observing, working towards leading a part of a lesson, eventually teaching them whole lessons but can never be left alone with them) gets given no time or recompense.

This is despite having to fill in observation forms, deal with that student grabbing them and understandably expecting long winded conversations about how things went, why you put x on their observation form, having to keep the MrsH equivalent in the loop about what's going on, sometimes (dare I say frequently) being faced with a trainee who is actually inappropriate for the classroom and clearly hasn't disclosed their own sen or... mental health issues to the training provider and/or is consistently not prepared, late, obstructive or rude, hasn't applied any feedback, made any effort etc.

I don't blame people for having high expectations when they've paid 9k but they do need to be aware who is cashing that 9k and who is responsible for their training. It certainly isn't the one or two overstretched, already taking way more responsibility and extra tasks on, teachers in the maths/english/french department who are giving up their lunchtimes and free periods to try and help you despite that meaning they'll have to stay an extra hour after school to get through the marking they planned to do in that slot. It also isn't our fault that the government has allowed all sorts of cowboys to set up as teacher training providers and make the profit without doing the work of actually properly screening candidates for mental health, special needs, maturity, EQ etc required to even start training.

Yes you've paid, but we haven't been paid and are not your employees or service providers and when trainees are really rude or difficult it obviously becomes even harder to give up precious time and energy that you do not have to spare just to be ignored or insulted.

The state of teacher training does seem to leave a lot to be desired at the minute but the people you should definitely not blame are the teachers who don't receive a penny of your fees and can't even get released from break duties in recognition of the fact that they've volunteered to support a student and haven't been given any time or resources to do that in/with.

I suspect by charging fees for degrees and creating a, student as customer who must be accommodated no matter what (eg. no matter their effort, ability, appropriacy, rudeness, unrealistic expectations etc), model at undergrad level pgce or equivalent students come in with a very skewed idea of what being trained to be an incredibly autonomous and high work load professional will be like. Add to that that teacher training is now on a profit model and therefore doesn't do the rigorous screening that needs to take place in order to let people into schools and to train for a very responsible role and it's all obviously shambolic.

My pgce director for example was very pleased to hear that I had worked in a secure psychiatric unit for adolescents before. It kind of rang alarm bells for me that he thought that was relevant but of course it was - he knew he wasn't dealing with someone so delicate that they'd be in tears and expecting to be rescued if a teenager told them to fuck off or whatever other colourful normality they might encounter in a state school.

I have no idea what the screening and interview process is nowadays - would be interested to hear if you fancy sharing.

I have no idea what the screening and interview process is nowadays - would be interested to hear if you fancy sharing.

In my recent experience, "can you talk? Do you have £9k? You're in..."

I'm also a bit unclear who 'mentors' are now. We'll have one person per school like MrsHamlet who will have varied titles, in my trainee day it was professional tutor, who hopefully gets a little bit of time for coordinating weekly meets with trainees/ects and emails round begging if anyone is willing to have a trainee in their class

I'm a mentor for the maths trainee in my dept. I have to write their timetable, I have weekly meetings with them in my PPA, I set their targets and fill out all the uni forms for them. They take one of my classes, the rest is other teachers.

I don't get paid any extra and I don't get given any time. I'm not an "absolute lunatic" and my mentees have appreciated the support 🤷‍♀️

We receive £200 per placement,hardly touches the surface of the time and effort our mentors put in, all in their own time. Too often, the trainees are woefully unprepared and think they deserve a free ride as they are paying for the placement. But it's not a business, they are affecting children's lives.
Mind you, a good trainee is well worth it!

I've been a mentor several times. No training, no time given and certainly no money. I say no now as it's too much work.

@JaffavsCookie
Wow that’s a bit harsh isn’t it? The OP is clearly having a bad day and maybe they just need a bit of a rant. Surely a teacher’s circumstances are just as relevant as the kids we teach? A supportive school should value staff as much as pupils!
I had an awful mentor for my first placement, I backed up a fellow student teacher after the mentor made a racist remark towards her. 😳 She made both of our lives very difficult after that. This was 18 years ago, we are both still teaching the mentor quit years ago! It was an awful time and I felt like quitting so I can understand how the OP feels. Fortunately my next mentor was brilliant. Arseholes exist in all professions.

I am also a mentor so I can see it from that side too. I’ve had some great students but also those with the car that breaks down every week, grandfather who had died 5 times over and the lesson plans being sent after the lesson! I always support them to improve though.

I'm afraid I don't always support weak trainees to improve. My primary responsibility is to my students. If a trainee is not doing an adequate job and is unwilling to work to improve, they have to go. That's part of my role.

@MrsHamlet
Unless I’m missing something I don’t think the OP has said that this is the case? Unfortunately bullying and unfair treatment of staff including trainee teachers is rife in schools as. This is my understanding of the OP. I am exhausted and ready for the end of term though so I may have missed that! 🤦‍♀️😂

The system lends itself to bullies. Because one person gets to sign off on the student's teaching practice.

A lot of you have said well who would want to be a mentor given that you don't get recognised or paid for it? Well, sadly, quite often its someone who isnt that great and wants to get the trainee teacher to do most of their planning, teaching and marking for them, whilst holding the threat of failure over their heads if they complain.

And who is getting the 9k?? Because if it's the universities the pgce must be the most expensive course per contact hour there is.

A lot of you have said well who would want to be a mentor given that you don't get recognised or paid for it? Well, sadly, quite often its someone who isnt that great and wants to get the trainee teacher to do most of their planning, teaching and marking for them, whilst holding the threat of failure over their heads if they complain.
You seem to know an awful lot about these terrible bullying mentors who are ‘often’ in the role…

And who is getting the 9k?? Because if it's the universities the pgce must be the most expensive course per contact hour there is.
… while also knowing nothing about PGCEs.

How curious.

OP, I’m sorry your PGCE didn’t work out, but you’re not going to find what you want here. Your contract was with the university. Complain to them; don’t try to blame teachers, especially not those who give their time freely here to try to help others on their profession. We’re not your enemy.

wants to get the trainee teacher to do most of their planning, teaching and marking for them, whilst holding the threat of failure over their heads if they complain.

You don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a trainee to do planning, teaching and marking? That’s literally the training.

If trainees are complaining because they’re expected to actually train to teach then 🤷‍♀️