The Fifty-fourth Republic - Easter holidays anyone?

[StaffRepFeistyClub]

You are most welcome to this school staff support thread to get us through stressful times. It is meant for school staff only – a sort of room of requirement. Baiters, haters, goaders, and bashers can jog on somewhere else.

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@Piggywaspushed

My problem with all girls' schools is that they create all boys' schools..

I’ve don’t know anyone who has taught or attended an all boy’s school. Wonder what the dynamics are like in one of those. The nearest all boy’s school to my school is in another LEA. I’ve often wondered why we don’t have the equivalent.

I don't think it is entirely true that the problem with boys lies with their dads (the report after all singles out absent fathers and Tony Sewell is obsessed with this!). I do think there is a problem in many schools. Just look at the make up of my SLT and you will see how a 'boys will be boys culture' is tolerated, accepted and even created or encouraged. The mob mentality is easily achieved. Toxic masculinity comes right form the top : Boris and his chums who can't imagine a working life without office banter are part of the problem, too,

mother in the nicest way, I don't think your family is the target for the longer school days!

As happened in the pandemic with schools , the evidence is so selective : form free schools, MATs and the US charter schools, nothing form Europe. It's like how they used to get all evidence about maths teaching from Shanghai. Tony Sewell's answer to all criminal activity is to keep them off the streets 'because stabbings occur between 4 and 6 pm'. I think they mat at some point suggest no weekends or holidays either!

The thing that makes me livid is they say data on ethnicity should be disaggregated when it suits them and then merrily lump everyone back together when it suits and , without a hint of irony suggests certain ethnic minorities underperform because they are poor : ermmm, is it not entirely possible that the report ought to have looked at why so many people form ethnic minorities live in poverty? Oh, they are really poor in Knowsley so that's why it's all a bit shit. Lots of them are white so we can't have racism. There are Bangladeshi people there and they do OK at school. Nothing to see here. You are right jan, so much of it reads like a really smug political speech.

My local Free School is mentioned in the report ... after school 'prep' til 4pm and then clubs. They also claim there is a breakfast club. I know hardly any students attend that. The prep is sitting in silence and every dept is expected to find work they do without nay help from the supervising teacher. Teachers work longer hours at that school but are apparently rewarded by having 'no' marking and centralised planning. I would rather spend an peaceful afternoon eye gouging than work there.

These schools are all well and good until the kids decided to revolt : look at Pimlico yesterday.

We have quite a few boys' schools. DH's was but is now mixed. The remaining tow are both private and one is a well known expensive boys' schol with boarding. DH's school still has remnants of laddishness in its structures but is no worse than mine.

The boys' school in the large town down the road are 99% Muslim so a slightly different prospect!

So true. I teach A level Lit and we study feminist literature. We often have discussions about ingrained misogyny and how can those beliefs ever be changed. It can get a bit depressing but also hopeful, these girls are feisty and want change!

Yeah I know we’re not the family that’s in mind for ‘catch up’ but if it becomes mandatory for all I worry that will have an impact on my DC’s interests. They know what they like! Although I’d there was roblox club they’d be keen for that!

The 'clubs' need to be 'someone stands in a local park with a first aid kit and the kids all play'. In my opinion.

I teach A level Lit and we study feminist literature.

Tony Sewell disparagingly calls this the 'feminisation of education'. As well as his various dubious attitudes about race, he is a misogynist (busy blaming single mother and female primary teachers for most ills) and a homophobe. I do think he thinks education is the answer : that stall is set out at the beginning of the report. But only his version of education. He can't see that it could do any damage to nay children, against mounds of evidence unless it is damaging their sense of masculinity. I think if he could say it he would say 'put a tough male black headteacher in charge of every school, bring back the cane, and get them in school from 7 am til 10pm. Don't liaise with parents because they are all feckless single women.' I am not even caricaturing that much.

I think Tony Sewell is one of these 'self styled ' education consultants. I am no t sure he has ever held a particularly senior position in education or educational research even. He has one very famous 2010 report but that was derided at the time. His pedigree is not great which leads people like the Runnymede Trust to be suspicious that it's all about the optics.

Well, I guess we'll see what comes of it all.

Hope today goes well for those still in school.

So many stories of men behaving badly and this attitude affecting their wives, daughters and sons. I could definitely add to them! I remember phoning a mum about her dd's lack of organisation in class, and getting the feeling that something was very wrong at home regarding things with dad. Turned out to be right .

And my Y12 laughed when I was telling them about how every so often someone will pop up on our department Twitter account to tell me I'm doing things wrong/badly.... and invariably, it will always be a man!

I’ve taught in an all boys school. I would say ‘bantz’ and sexism fairly rife in a sort of they all think it’s a joke way. Make teachers I don’t believe did much to dispel it and laughed along with the boys. By the time I left things were changing but it is still an issue although I think addressed more now.

I was talking to the girls in Y12 this week and they discussed how it is such a few boys saying things but such a large number sniggering along - our school has done some work with the boys on bystander and how it isn’t ok to snigger, or even just not respond or tell one of the staff because that is the only way we can make a change within our community. Will it work? Who knows? But we’re really trying with it.

The other thing to note about Sewelll is he has very little experience in the UK outside of London (this is also something I find about Akala who generalises form a London upbringing and outside of black ethnic identities). I think he perhaps thinks all his work in London can be just simply be applied in coastal towns and the deprived Red Wall areas : this has been a mistake made by successive governments.

Everything comes back to UCL and Teach First : government darlings.

So you're not his biggest fan then piggy?

I've got one particular memory from early in my career of misogyny from a student I'll call Jerome. He was outstandingly rude to me one day and told me he didn't have to listen to, 'some white bitch tell him what to do'. SLT totally disinterested and no back up or punishment at all.

He spent a lot of time sat at a desk outside my room because I wouldn't let him back in without an apology or at the very least being willing to take off his coat and manage to be vaguely polite. I'd taken so much misogynistic abuse and inappropriate behaviour from this kid and I had just had enough and refused to take it anymore.

You couldn't get away with it today (desk outside room, here's the book and the same bit of work I've asked you to do for 5 lessons but you never put pen to paper) but then hopefully today you also wouldn't get away with calling someone a 'bitch' in the genuine misogynistic slur way either.

@Piggywaspushed

My problem with all girls' schools is that they create all boys' schools..

I know someone who has worked in all girls and all boys schools. He seems to think it’s great for the girls but much less great for the boys.

MrsH your school sounds great. Hope the work on not being a bystander has an impact.

I can't bear him honey. can you tell?

His Wikipedia entry has this rather odd , coded section:

During the late 1980s and early 1990s, he wrote a weekly social commentary column for The Voice. No information is currently provided on this entry about Dr Sewell from the early 1990s until 2012, including his doctorate.

What was the man doing? Wikipedia seems not to know! ( I know : he was writing a book called Black masculinities and Schooling)

I don't understand why putting a kid outside a room to work is now no longer acceptable? But, on reflection, you are right : I hardly ever see it. We tolerate too much in the classroom these days. These days, a child (male or female) would probably kick up an enormous fuss if we tried to sit them outside, I think.

We're specifically told putting a child outside should just be used for a minute or two for de-escalation and to avoid a removal.

Jerome never made it through my classroom door again. If the management thought it was ok for him to speak to me like that and he thought it was ok then ok I can't change that but I can refuse to let him in my room. I just totally divested - oh still not ready to say sorry, there's your seat, here's the work (background abuse and swearing), thanks then bye.

I never got in trouble for it - I think my colleagues just turned a blind eye possibly because they could tell hmm that's a hill she's willing to die on I once did a temporary contract with a school where some boy screamed misogynist abuse with rape threat overtones and removed him only for him to be put back in my class 5 minutes later without an apology or anything. I left at the end of that day. Clearly that wasn't the only thing that happened but it was definitely the last straw. I remember losing the ability to speak briefly because my brain was just going fuck this, I don't get paid enough to take this shit, I don't think you COULD pay me enough to take this shit, what on earth am I doing here?

Of course we put up with a lot and I have to deal with disruptive kids and kids who have major issues but no way on earth am I putting up with aggressive, misogynistic and threatening behaviour from young men and not being backed up by slt.

My class is boy heavy. What strikes me is that they all think their voice is the most important. And even at age 11 i've had to call home about sexist language and sexualised behaviour.

When teaching secondary 11 years ago I regularly dealt with appalling sexist behaviour. From the male staff to me too! I would hope things had changed but clearly not.

One thing that strike me is the negatives dd gets. Almost all from male teachers for minor things like questioning what has been asked, joking etc. The female teachers almost universally said she was great in reports and confident and clever. I've no doubt she can be a pain in the arse, but she doesn't fit the well behaved quiet girl image - she is clever, confident, and asks a lot of questions. Which means she is "bad". Son is less clever, seems to arse about a lot more to me, but has negligible negatives.

I try very hard to encourage girls to speak up and talk in my lessons, and to stand up for themselves assertively. I've got a lot of passive girls this year who are also not very bright and I think they'll get lost at secondary and probably taken advantage of.

I too would love to send kids out. The Bobs I've got would do runners though. Or smash up the corridor. You're right though- we tolerate far too much.

I hope by black masculinities he wasn't referring to Jerome not having to listen to some white bitch tell him what to do? In that school the British Caribbean boys who behaved awfully were badly let down by not being disciplined and being given a pass on behaviour by the head as if he thought it was a 'cultural' thing rather than behaviour - which to me seemed racist in itself.

We're supposed to be preparing kids for adult life and the world of work so allowing behaviours to go unchecked that would see you sacked and possibly interviewed by the police is doing kids no favours in my opinion.

It does sound rather misogynistic and egotistical if he thinks all of the black communities problems are due to kids missing out on having a strong man like him in their lives - not envy

I do think BAME needs disaggregating though and I agree you have to look at a broader range of factors than race alone and many disparities can be traced back to economic deprivation. You're right though that that economic disparity needs unpicking too. In the case of poverty in lone parent families he attributes lack of financial resources and lack of time. In the case of Caribbean households he seems to leave it implied that the problem is a negative attitude towards education, work and prospects.

One thing that strike me is the negatives dd gets. Almost all from male teachers for minor things like questioning what has been asked, joking etc. The female teachers almost universally said she was great in reports and confident and clever. I've no doubt she can be a pain in the arse, but she doesn't fit the well behaved quiet girl image - she is clever, confident, and asks a lot of questions. Which means she is "bad". Son is less clever, seems to arse about a lot more to me, but has negligible negatives.

This is often true (just like overlooked autism in girls). Research suggests the same thing when black boys play up btw : it is regarded as more threatening and more aberrant. the report yesterday really really sidestepped the thorny issue of exclusions.

Yes, your final paragraph crystallises the problem with the report honey.

I read an interesting article by a British Chinese man yesterday who said the trope of 'the Chinese all do surprisingly well' was massively unhelpful, overlooking issues of racism and exploitation in the workplace. he felt this would never be tackled or challenged because of educational data.

In the first paragraph I'm talking about the few BC boys who behaved awfully, not as it reads saying the whole of the BC male population at school behaved awfully. Re-read my post and saw how it reads.

It was literally a handful of year 10 and 11 boys who had no respect for the head because whatever they did he'd just sit them down for a chat in his office and give them sweets and tell them that his wife was black His attempts to relate were just seen as being a twat but a pushover and made them fearless about their behaviour because they knew they were untouchable.

One thing that is actually good about my school is that it is laissez faire you can really teach how you like and do what you like (within reason!) so long as you can put up with mansplaining or lack of support from SLT, you can send them outside all day long!

The kids tend to be the ones witht he ' you can't do that' approach.

Has everyone read Kate Clanchy? It's a really life affirming book.

He even describes Black African kids as 'more positive' at one point which was a bit cringe worthy-ish. Yes, ime, black africans of recent migration seem to place a high value on education and often work hard but there's a complex of factors for that (including scarcity of education opportunities in their home country and parents who have always pushed it's value and sometimes coming from countries and schools where discipline was heavy handed) that are way more complex than 'they're more positive'.

On the other hand I don't that all of the negativity and being primed to see discrimination does have great effects on black boys psyche. I don't know. It's all such sensitive ground.

Oh, I knew what you meant honey! I too have taught the odd Jerome. I have also as a HOY though seen the disproportionate desire to farm out boys who (given less than 1% of our school is BAME - still using it!) have been black Caribbean, mixed race , LAC , working class or travellers. In some cases, they were deserved as they were entirely disrupting the school community but in other cases they were rescuable and no worse than the middle class children (one a child of very wealthy TV stars) who were tried harder with and kept for longer.

The school one along form me has literally changed its catchment so it no longer takes kids form the nearby diverse town and DS's school has been able to play the same game, having had its own catchment increased by new build estates.

I can see why these kids feel disconnected, unwelcome and unwanted and unrepresented.

Yep. I see it too sadly.

Just read a bit of the introduction to Kate Clanchy and it looks lovely - only available in hardback though for £9.90 on amazon so I'll look elsewhere.

I have a paperback!

Yes I've ordered it in paperback from wordery on ebay. Along with the Book of Enoch strangely - I've never read it and I'm curious.

I've read a the Kate Clancy book.

It cheered me up no end.

I've lent it to others, it's so good.

I have her book on writing poetry, too, which is also excellent.