The Fifty-fourth Republic - Easter holidays anyone?

[StaffRepFeistyClub]

You are most welcome to this school staff support thread to get us through stressful times. It is meant for school staff only – a sort of room of requirement. Baiters, haters, goaders, and bashers can jog on somewhere else.

If you are NOT staff and just have a general education query please start your own thread.

Do not give the staffroom password to non-staff as it attracts the wrong sort of crowd.

Other requirements for staff room entry include the ability to find the staff room, the ability to find a clean mug in the staff room, knowledge of the photocopier codes, and the ability to sniff out where the booze is stashed - Thirsty Tuesdays, Fizz Fridays now in operation. Do not sit on the chairs and do wear a mask

For kids with that love of academic learning and financial support it definitely makes sense. I may be coming at it differently because I put myself through uni rather than parents and because I know I can't afford to put ds through uni so he'd definitely get into a lot of debt.

Uni is great but so is being able to buy a home or afford a car 🤷‍♀️ I see many who went straight into work have managed those things way earlier than graduates.

Also coming from different pages on the travel front as I self funded that too-a gap year is a pretty middle class concept whereas I just wanted to go travelling saved up to do it and then found a way to work in the country I wanted to be in to get by.

I think we likely agree on the theoretical value of a he but are viewing the reality of he now from different class/economic positions.

So, looking at the papers today it looks like a lengthy government backed study into underachievement (ostensibly off the back Of BLM but if anyone else knows Tony Sewell you may well eyeroll)has concluded race isn't tge definitely factor : gender, class and geography are ( we could have told them this?)

Their answer :lengthen the school day.

I work in apprenticeships and we see increasing number of bright, sensible young people applying. They do well and are often on very good wages even before completing the apprenticeship. Some are straight out of school, some have tried university and didn't like it, some actually have degrees but are unable to do anything with them. I know I sent a number of people to university who might have been better off otherwise.

The ones that don't succeed are frequently the ones who are told by their schools to apply, on the grounds they are academically weak or have challenging behaviours. They can't cope with the written work and get fired from their jobs. Why their teachers or careers advisors thought any trade or business would welcome them is baffling. On the other hand, it's true that some do get their acts together and succeed - but often only with considerable input and support from employers and staff.

Jan I've seen some amazing high level apprenticeships with proper wages (ie more than I got in my first year of teaching after 4 years of he) recently. I'm hoping that is a sign of change.

I think when you say apprenticeship people think hairdressers but it's changing

My parents didn't pay for a penny of my education, honey!

I think there is a geographical thing . Kids round here go to uni to learn there is a world out there. They are very insular. Most of them come back because of being unable to afford rent etc. But the ones who don't go to uni are not earning much either.

Piggy my BIL is a physics need who studied at Bristol - if you met him he might change your mind about Bristol students!

Cat I entirely agree with you about the passionate people at Oxbridge, not just about their subject though, it could be about eg rights for disabled people or getting tiddlywinks into the Olympics!

@JanFebAnyMonth, your comment made me smile. One of my lecturers was the world tiddlywinks champion at the time! No idea if he still is.

The extracurricular activities thread was a bit of an eye opener for me. I feel very out of date now! Still give some mock interviews to 6th formers applying for Engineering-type subjects, but I tend to draw on my experience as an interviewer of undergraduates and graduates more than my own university experience.

A nerd, not a need!

That's encouraging born. Ds is 14 and bright but no love of learning going on and has traveled and lived overseas with me so well aware there's a world out there.

I think a decent starting salary, being able to afford to run a car and becoming concretely skilled at something would be more motivating for him than uni so I'm hoping the trend I've seen in high skill apprenticeships with decent starting salaries really is a trend that continues.

Piggy didn't mean to imply your parents put you through uni just responding to your saying you can't afford for your dc to take a gap year ie coming at it from the perspective you'd be paying. I'd love to be able to afford to put ds through uni but as things stand I won't even be able to keep a roof over our heads once child benefit and child support etc come to an end at 19. It's a different view from that perspective and lots of parents of kids I teach would be in the same position.

I think the gap between middle class and working class is very wide and schools can be a bit naive about how different things look from those positions.

Does your ds know what he wants to do when he leaves school, Honey?

If he is interested in the STEM subjects, there is a scheme called the Year in Industry, which specifically places students between school and university into 10-12 month placements. I did it and although it was one of the most boring years of my life (lab rat in an R&D facility), it taught me a lot about the world of work, gave me good experience and also some savings to take to university.

www.etrust.org.uk/the-year-in-industry

I do remember the maths conversations we had over lockdown, so appreciate this might not be of interest to him.

@DrMadelineMaxwell

Late 40s and unjabbed. I could have had an appt over the border in chester as a link had been shared by a staff member that recognised welsh nhs numbers and allowed bookings, but I think the link was for staff who lived in wales who could be done due to being health and social care members. Several teaching and TA staff booked and have been, no questions asked even if they were below group 9, so I could have gone and risked it but I'm really not a rule breaker so I haven't.

Dh is group 6 and turned his down until he gets called for the age group due to believing I need it more than him with my asthma. So I can wait and have it in my age group.

Out gp is on group 8 so group 9 is going to be called by the local hub from.mid April (supply dependent) so I'm hoping late april to May..

When DH got the text to be jabbed before me, he asked if I could have it instead as I am higher risk. They agreed, I just needed to sign a form. In the end my text arrived half an hour later, so we went together. That was at my GP in North Wales.

Jan I've seen some amazing high level apprenticeships with proper wages (ie more than I got in my first year of teaching after 4 years of he) recently. I'm hoping that is a sign of change.

Definitely changing Honey. As a sixth form tutor, I have seen many go off to do degree apprenticeships in the last 6 years. On average, about 20% of our Sixth Form (of 400 odd) and getting higher all the time.

Often still need higher grades than Uni grades to get on them though as they are so competitive. I had two year 13 students have their interviews at Goldman Sachs today for example.
Degree apprenticeships are definitely something I am going to encourage my own DD to consider in the future if she wishes.

Degree apprenticeships are quite limited though. Mainly STEM or business focused because of funding. Definitely not something there for every child. The A levels seeing biggest growth are psychology, business and politics.

BTec provision is woeful in a lot of areas. Wonder what will happen with T levels? Our school is keen to avoid them...

@Piggywaspushed

Question : does anyone on here routinely use the terms co curricular or super curricular?

I think MN thinks the latter is somehow not a marker of privilege and a great leveller. But I reckon my kids wouldn't even recognise the terms.

Only used at ds's independent school that I know of...

I paid for my own gap year and funded myself through uni (my dad helped in the form of free childcare for dd1, who was a toddler at the time). Now dd1 is at uni (failing second year at the minute) and she gets only just over the minimum loan, so I'm paying out quite a lot for her to try uni. I really don't think she's going to pass second year though, and am fully expecting her to be home full time from this summer. I'm looking into what apprenticeships are available round here at the appropriate level and there's quite a few. There are a couple of big factories who offer computing (not IT) apprenticeships, and scientific/technical apprenticeships as well. I will be recommending that she takes a year to concentrate on her mental health (getting any crappy job that will take her at the same time) then applying for a degree apprenticeship somewhere. I would even buy her a car (I am very aware that we are financially privileged to be able to afford to do this) so she could get there as public transport is dire around here.

Loads of our sixth formers go to uni, but there are quite a few of them where it genuinely isn't the best option for them and they should be contemplating other things. Kids from some parts of our catchment get contextual offers and/or manage to participate in outreach schemes for some of the better universities. Most of them want to stay Northern though, very few would consider much further South than Liverpool/Manchester/York as they want to be able to come home easily for weekends.

We have a very northern-centric outlook too... Lancaster or Preston, maybe Liverpool or Manchester, Newcastle.
Sometimes we have students who go further afield - Plymouth was a good one one year, and we have one currently in California!!
Apprenticeship wise, there are a couple of BIG local employers who we send a lot to at 16 and growing numbers at 18 but we're lucky that we're in their catchment. A lot of our students are real home birds.
That said, we have one who was offered a degree level apprenticeship with a doughnut shaped building but turned it down for something very similar in a big 5 accountancy firm. She's gutted not to be in London right now, though!

I’m old enough for the Tax Payer to have put me through Uni. I consider the LibDems caving in in tuition fees in the coalition to be a huge political betrayal. It was much more than studying a subject I loved, for me. Truly life-broadening. As a rather shy and introverted Northern daydreamer it really helped me develop as a person.
Piggy, DS isn’t a Hurrah Henry with helicopter parents and he is going to one of ‘those’ unis. Chosen for the subject, not the name or family connections. I’m sure there will be many in his tribe. I’m not allowed to talk about his choice on here (fair enough, he’s an adult and it’s his business) but I will say he went for what they can offer with their course rather than blindly following a ‘name’.
As with so many things on MN the vociferous minority do skew perceptions of universities. I skim past those posts in the main.

Evening all, have you remembered to claim your working from home tax rebate? If you are taxed at the normal level you get £1.20 back a week for the whole year. It's very easy to claim. Even if you were only at home some of the time you get it for the year. Its towards heating costs etc.
www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/working-at-home

And also don't forget your union fees and professional subs are tax deductible.

you could do a Santander/HSBC apprenticeship round here if you had your own transport. Otherwise , it seems mainly to be your old fashioned apprenticeships plus greenkeepers...

Degree apprenticeships are quite limited though. Mainly STEM or business focused because of funding. Definitely not something there for every child.

The fashion and beauty industry also offer them in companies like L’Oreal and Conde Nast. And Tesco offer them for roles in HR etc. Journalism is a popular one. The NHS even do them. For example, becoming a nurse or nurse practitioner, paramedic or optometrist that way. There is a whole list of areas that is growing and growing. I wouldn’t discount it necessarily and has been an appreciated alternative for my inner city students who don’t want the financial burden of a traditional degree .

Yeah, the NHS came under my STEM thing. The journalism ones are hen's teeth and really only open to those who have built up experience , thus perpetuating issues in journalism and access imo (the BBC and Sky ones definitely). But it is all moot where I love unless you have the money to get to the geographical locations!

The Tesco ones aren't anywhere near us , sadly.

I think we have had one student from our sixth from do a degree apprenticeship (with Dyson). She was clever , utterly driven and -as it goes- very affluent.

When DS was a fairly feckless sixth former , lots of posters on here suggested that somehow he could do an apprenticeship. For which he would have required pretty high grades, work experience, an interview and some get up and go. Studying politics and Spanish A Levels (and business ,which he hated) wasn't exactly a match to anything obvious either. Uni is actually easier to get into!

I really need to find out more about university applications - DD1 is in Y12 and hopes to go next year. She's quite academic and on track for A/A* in her A-levels but not interested in Oxbridge. Should we be thinking about personal statements etc already?

I'm old enough to have applied for my university place through UCCA, had free tuition and a full maintenance grant... I might be a little out of touch!

@HarrietDVane

I really need to find out more about university applications - DD1 is in Y12 and hopes to go next year. She's quite academic and on track for A/A* in her A-levels but not interested in Oxbridge. Should we be thinking about personal statements etc already?

I'm old enough to have applied for my university place through UCCA, had free tuition and a full maintenance grant... I might be a little out of touch!

At DD’s school they do it all in the summer term of y12. At DS’s, they did it in Autumn 1 of Y13-not sure why they differ?!

Should we be thinking about personal statements etc already?

She could be doing things in preparation for having something to put in it. In the absence of work experience and visits etc, she could be reading outside the syllabus of the course(s) she is interested in. Watching/attending webinars, following academics in the field on Twitter, reading blogs or papers or watching YouTube.
Easy enough to do but will mean she has something interesting to include!