I think people (politicians and others) saying 'transition' being the reason y6 should return first haven't thought this through!

[DrMadelineMaxwell]

For so very many reasons.

I posted similar on a recent thread, but in a nutshell..

Most of the 'rights of passage' stuff just can't happen if you have not got your full class/cohort in and have to have any kind of social distancing. Show - no time. Residential - can't travel. SATS - cancelled so no wind down after. Leavers' service - can't get people together in large numbers to can't have all parents in anyway.

Seeing friends they are in primary together is a flawed argument if you have to start talking about rotas of kids on days or sessions, or splitting the classes into smaller groups that stay more isolated. And then they can see their friends but not actually go near them....and that's IF you can get all their friends in one group, which you probably couldn't because their friendship groups change like the wind sometimes.

Actual transition activities - a chat by the main high school's teachers to the children going there could potentially happen. But the main visit days won't happen if the high schools aren't open yet. And won't be really meaningful if they are only open to very few kids as they will still miss out on seeing their new classes in their entirety to meet new friends and they won't see what the busy high school actually looks and feels like.

So why keep touting 'transition' as a reason?

I too don't understand why year 6. There is no curriculum for them to cover, it will not be possible for them to do all the things they would have expected to, they might not even see their particular friends as no doubt groups will be organised alphabetically not in friendship groups. leavers assembly in small groups won't be quite the same, no play or trips etc. and frankly what do year 6 normally do in June/July? not a lot is the answer except all the stuff they can't do this year.

So why send them back in as the guinea pigs. They won't get a calm, positive end to primary school, it isn't possible. they will get a cobbled together experience without some of their friends or any of the things they have been looking forward to. It will probably lead to being even more sad and depressing than if they were at home to be honest.

Year 5 have work they could be doing, far more suited to the situation and frankly I do believe years 10 and 12 have to be the priority although harder to arrange I think it is the way to go.

I would agree with them going back for the last week of term if they were the only year in to be able to have some closure and collect their things, it will be safer by then but I am not sending my child in for 7 weeks to do nothing.

It would be helpful if once it is seen to be safe for year 6 to go back for secondary schools to invite them in small groups to go for a couple of hours to look round and meet a member of staff. In a small group they could socially distance and even in an intake of 240 if they were spread out over a week they could get them in in really pretty small groups with a minimal risk all round (compared to sending them all back to primary school). Far more use and more reassuring to the children.

Why do people keep saying children are frightened? They really shouldn't be if you have supported them properly and explained things properly.

You might have done. These vulnerable children that everyone is suddenly so concerned about, probably haven't had any support.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you're here, this is the staffroom and you've got issues with teachers right now. Probably not looking to be supportive yourself.

Don’t be daft, Never, if a global pandemic wasn’t frightening or stressful in any way we wouldn’t be sat at home all day avoiding friends and family and keeping 2m away from people.

Children aren’t stupid. And there are many adults frightened of going back to work too.

I’m lucky that my kids are pretty chilled, but things are unfamiliar and stressful out in the world and they’ve been fairly sheltered from it.

@pfrench but this is intelligent articulate people on Mumsnet saying this about their own children. We have four and none of them are frightened because we have explained the science and the statistics and they understand the reasons for the lockdown. Mine live with life threatening allergies every day, it's now you articulate and manage risk to children that is crucial. Maybe schools should be doing more to inform and educate children.

Honestly, kids go through a LOT worse than not being able to say goodbye to their primary school. I don’t think this in particular will cause lasting psychological harm. It’s not pleasant, but they will adjust. Now, on the other hand, other harmful factors of the coronavirus...

Totally agree with all PPs
At this point in the school year schools would have been doing SATs prep and they've been cancelled.
We're lucky our high school have initiated zoom transition meetings for his form group

I've been year 6 for about a decade now. When I was in secondary I also had a few years as pastoral head of 7.

Most of the real transition is done by secondaries. It has to be. In 6, the pshe addressing worries can be done in a morning. The SRE in a day. The real stuff is the visiting of secondaries and the meeting of their tutors there, the uniform days, getting the bus and so on, not what we do in year 6.

The majority of year 6 are done with us - they want to go. They've had enough of each other, they're falling out, they don't even want yo be arsed with the ruddy school play half the time. The sentiments are almost entirely on the part of the parents. They can see the friends they want to after lockdown.

Personally, i think opening the secondaries to year 7 alone and first for a few days will cover it. One of mine has the year 6 for a week before we break up and that seemed to work very well.

phlebasconsidered Exactly

But phleb you’re basically agreeing that Y6 need to be back to do some transition work. With you, and with the secondary.

That’s what Y6 parents really want.

but this is intelligent articulate people on Mumsnet

Totally agree phleb, and nice to hear it from a Year 6 teacher. Noble, certainly based on what we've heard from several local schools, the secondaries won't be doing any in-person transition this side of the school holidays, so there's no point in the kids going in for that. Maybe split the Y6 class in three and each 'set' has one socially distanced morning with their Y6 teacher to have a reassuring chat about secondary? But otherwise, all the important info transfer, particularly SEN and safeguarding stuff, is going on as normal between the schools already.

I'd agree to a day, because that is all it would take, if that. With maybe 5 in at a time. All capable staff can do a bit and it could be done in a day. Then the secondaries can take over. Transition is usually rather dragged out, I feel. In all honesty, SRE, a bit of a chat and a book of photos would do it from the primary end. All the "real" stuff is secondary led.

Not forgetting those that wouldn't be there anyway - usually my year 6 attendance drops like a stone past sats and there's always at least 5 who won't bother with the play because they know they'll be in Spain already. And then another 3 will fuck of to Centreparcs with no notice leaving me to fill the play parts with people with no clue.

That’s not addressing the bit about pastoral care of kids coming out of lockdown though.

Thinking that parents don’t care about Y6 post SATs because some of them take a term time holiday doesn’t really apply here does it? It’s not the same situation at all, and careful transition will be more important than ever.

Surprised to hear so many primary teachers queuing up to say that Y6 are basically not their problem any more.

I can see the need for year 6 to have some sort of transition to year 7. I’m not sure that going back to school on 1 June, being some of the few pupils in school and not actually having any transition to year 7 is the way to do it. What would they do for the 6 or 7 weeks they were at school?

Also not every area has primary and secondary schools. Although there’s not many, there are some first, middle and upper schools where the transitions are at the end of year 4 and the end of year 8. Year 6 there is “just” half way through middle school.

We don't have SATs (Wales). Instead every year from y2 to yo sits tests in May. Therefore theres no massive wind down. We teach as we do all year and there's no emphasis on covering everything before now.
It is still the case that a few mentally 'check out' as they are nearly done with primary in their eyes. Behaviour can then be (even more of) an issue.

A few weeks later on when numbers of infections and deaths have had a few more weeks to fall will be good to get them reschooled and having an end to their primary days would work.

Just not all y6 in for a full half term in the name of transition and rights of passage. Especially if high schools won't be open to provide the more meaningful parts of it.

Some transition work needs to take place for children with care plans and other needs. Personally, I think small group visits to the high school would be better than no visit at all. We have agreed a meeting between 2 SENCOs, specialist nurse and myself to get a care plan in place because technically he shouldn’t be in school without a care plan and I don’t want him missing the first day or days whenever that may be because the usual transition work has got lost in the current mess. I would urge all schools not to forget their children with SEND and medical conditions.

Y2 to y9

What about getting year R and 1 in - spread out over all school staff?

Early reading....

I would say there's a priority for pupils in sen schools to be able to transition appropriately as transition is a huge challenge for them day too day.

It's not great for mainstream pupils to miss out, but in the grand scheme of things it's not something that will be a huge issue for. I moved several times at primary age and started my secondary school without knowing a single person.

It made me good at making friends.

There are priority groups across all school year groups for various reasons and all school cohorts are different.

That's not what i'm saying at all Noble. But it's a huge overestimate to think that it will take weeks of nurturing because it does not and it will not.

Most if not all of year 6 teachers will have spent all year fostering levels of independence needed to go to secondary. Elements of transistion will have been threaded through the curriculum. The friendship issues and change in circumstances will have been elements of pshe since September. The final bits of transistion are just that - little bits of a whole jigsaw of year 6.

Primary teaching is not like secondary at all. We've had the kids all day every day and we know what they need. I've just got out of a team meeting and we've completed the SEND and EBD info to go up to secondary. I've spoken to every year 6 this week. The majority of the work has been done. All they need now from our end is the sex ed and a final tie- up emotionally. The rest really is down to secondaries and by this stage in the year it always has been. That's not shirking or fobbing off, that's how it works - i can't sort out their secondary timetable or bus journey - that's the secondaries. I can't give them sample lessons in a whizzy lab or show them the form tutor or uniform. You are a secondary teacher so you must know that it's you not us that do that. So it's not that they're "not my problem" as you said, it's that we have done what we do already and what we can offer doesn't need weeks to deliver.

phlebas and again you are ignoring their social and emotional needs due to there being a global pandemic and an abrupt school closure. The people best placed to deal with that are those who have known these kids for the last 7 years, not a load of people who don’t know them from Adam.

It’s not about bus timetables ffs.

There is an assumption being made that what the newspapers are saying is what the government is thinking is what the parents want. Y6 in, full time from June 1st, for weeks of whatever.

What parents are thinking is ‘yes, I would really like my Y6 to have some support with leaving primary and transition to secondary from BOTH primary and secondary schools and I’m pleased to hear transition being talked about as a priority.’

What primary school teachers should be saying is ‘yes, it is important to us that Y6 are supported in this massive change, what would be ideal is getting them in in July for some socially distanced assembly-type work addressing their concerns and checking up on them, along with some visits to/from secondary school for familiarisation’.

Instead it’s ‘Y6? But they spend the summer term literally doing nothing and besides, it’s the secondary school’s job to sort transition and I hear they’re not going to do that so oh well. Forget Y6’s emotional needs, Y5 have got SATs next year and I’m worried about the league tables’.

Oh you're probably right. I'm probably just a cow who doesn't know my job.
Again. We have been preparing them for this all year. 99% of the children who feel anxious need yto see the secondary and visit. Virtually any anxieties they have vanish after jump up day. It is perhaps the most important last jigsaw piece and we cannot provide that in our school.

I have and am still providing support for my class. In our meeting today we discussed how we can fit perhaps 5 kids in each class to provide transition and how on earth we can do that when our secondary has said they won't be open to us. Nobody is saying not to do that. I haven't said not to do that. But I probably only care about league tables.....