Gavin wants to get rid of the upper pay scale

[noblegiraffe]

Because nothing says ‘fuck you, experienced teachers’ like paying them the same as someone a couple of years in.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/832425/SoS_to_STRB_Sept_2019.pdf

He’s asking the pay review body to ask whether there is still a case for the upper pay scale, and says he wants a flatter pay structure.

How will this work when UPS teachers are expected to take up extra cross-school responsibilities in order to justify their pay point?

I tried to read it carefully but it's so encoded....

Is it saying that starting and early career salaries will be much higher in order to lure graduates in and then it will not climb much?

Graduates, by definition, are not stupid.

Gavin can fuck off

I think he's asking for recommendations as to how to move it forward in the last bit?

I suspect it'll be flatter but I think it may be harder to go up. I work damn hard on UPS3 doing a lot of whole school stuff.

If it goes I'll simply refuse to do anything but my basic job. Or insist on a TLR to continue.

I think what'll happen is possibly good in one respect in that there won't be a rush to recruit "cheapest" teachers, so experienced staff will get a better look in for jobs.

Oh great!

So, we get an influx of people attracted by the higher starting salary and then they bugger off because it’s too hard and there’s no pay progression.

My experience as a Science teacher is that the high bursaries bring plenty of (often unsuitable) PGCE students but they don’t stick it out.

Therefore, the question should be what can be done to retain experienced teachers? Why don’t these idiots running our education system see this? It’s not rocket science!!

Has he suddenly looked at the details of the 30k starting salary announcement and realised that he can’t afford to bump everyone’s pay?

Agree that if M6 is suddenly paying as much as UPS, there’ll be a lot of teachers going ‘well why should I be doing all this extra work for nothing?’

God, what a kick in the face!!

I'm on UPS. I lead English as well as teaching in a sats year. I don't particularly want to go into senior management as, yknow, I'm a teacher and I teach things. Our SLT manage things. I really don't want that.

I'm early 40s. If there's no progression for the next 20 or so years, I'm off. Fuck that. I shall take my experience and costly investment in my skills and off I shall fuck.

Maybe that's the plan

I work in rather blessedly old fashioned school which waves us all through to UPS without expecting anything more , other than experience.... you do more stuff, you get a TLR.

He can't read very well perhaps? Only got as far as "recruitment" in the " recruitment and retention " crisis? Or maybe...considering the drop out rate in the first 3 years that's all he's going for. Whack the pay up for an NQT and work them into the ground til they break. Won't it be exciting and fresh when no school has any teachers with more than 3or 4 years experience under their belt!

I genuinely think (and you can read this on MN) that there are lots of people who think new (for which read, young) teachers are actually exclusively better than older ones and we are better off being carted off like poor old Boxer after about 5 years.

After all, Gav's own wife left teaching.

After all, Gav's own wife left teaching

Get outta town!!!

Speaks volumes.

teachers are actually exclusively better than older ones

Definitely see this on MN. They have so much energy and enthusiasm you see!

Whereas the teachers mentoring them know that enthusiasm is no substitute for skill.

Unfortunately, if you want a new job around here and are already on UPS, it is very unlikely that you will find a job with a similar pay....All the jobs advertised are for specific MPS pay scale and you are lucky to even be considered for MPS6. There are very few management positions being advertised, so I think that the upper pay scale is already being phased out. So much for my last 16 years of teaching...I should never have moved house with the idea that getting another teaching position on the same pay scale would be straight forward :(

And yet the expansion of MATs seems to be creating another layer of very well paid management posts.

I've not read it but how does this affect (large) private schools with own scale?

It doesn't other than they'll adjust upwards if they feel they needs to as well. They set own pay scales.

He can't read very well perhaps? Only got as far as "recruitment" in the " recruitment and retention " crisis?

This. When are politicians/schools going to realise that if they treated the experienced staff better, the crisis wouldn’t exist?

I’m also very concerned by the line about ‘supporting schools with managing staffing costs’, which suggests that this pay rise will come out of existing school budgets, not from central funding. Because we all just love watching TAs being made redundant and SEN pupils going without support.

Unfortunately, if you want a new job around here and are already on UPS, it is very unlikely that you will find a job with a similar pay....All the jobs advertised are for specific MPS pay scale and you are lucky to even be considered for MPS6

Same here-most even say ‘NQTs welcome’ which speaking to my HT friend roughly translates as, ‘only apply if you’re cheap!’

How might this affect us UPS folk? Would we get a 3/4/5 grand pay cut?

That will be fun on the pension.

They’re hoping there’ll be none of us left by 2022 when this apparently kicks in.

Well, unless we all drop dead, there’s quite a few of us with some years yet before we can retire.

What’s the betting they’ll say that we can keep on having the money but it’ll become a UPS shackle around our necks. Heads will get rid of anyone with the ‘shackle’ in capability for being expensive and we will never get jobs in other schools as we are expensive.

Bit like now really...!

What do you all do as part of upper pay scale responsibility? I am MPS3 in my new job and might stick there if the alternative is ridiculously time consuming!

SENCo

I’m going against the grain here and don’t think that this is such a bad idea. I am still smarting from a much older colleague (who couldn’t read the label on a pigeonhole ) opening my payslip publicly in the staffroom and exclaiming over their ‘paycut’!

Better pay overall, with TLRs for whole school responsibilities.

Where has this idea that UPS equals taking on responsibilities like SENCO come from?

UPS is really important for keeping "just teachers" in the classroom and teaching. Not everyone wants to become SLT but if pay is capped at £35k, you'd be forced into it.

Retention is more important than recruitment in my eyes. The teachers are already trained and working in the system so come with no extra cost.

That's really naughty. You shouldn't be taking on A SENCo role on UPS!