Glasgow spunks 300 million quid on ipads for schools

[noblegiraffe]

www.tes.com/news/rollout-52000-ipads-begins-glasgow-schools

I hope they’re insured, have they never looked at the screens of the kids’ mobile phones?

What a total waste of money.

Children are the future of this country, and our future will need to be tech friendly

And your education credentials are...?

Personally I've never in over 20 years of teaching used a textbook that was much good (though they certainly make teachers' lives easier, so I wish they were good). In fact the better ones I've used have been A Level textbooks with an online version with interactive activities. I find computers/tablets very useful for teaching MFL. I don't see why they'd need ones as expensive as iPads though.

Also, I see why maths textbooks would be fine after 14 years, but MFL textbooks certainly aren't. The books are designed to engage the students with stuff about culture and teenagers' lives in France/Spain etc, and the pictures and the vocab in teenage dialogues becomes dated pretty quickly.

Yes about tech billionaires children

Bill Gates eldest daughter is at Stanford University and is a showjumper.

His youngest daughter is at Julliard and intends to go into performing arts
His son has a degree in Computer Science from Duke

They all went to school in Seattle at the same school Bill went to.

Not exactly playing in the mud.

I don't see why they'd need ones as expensive as iPads though.

They get a lot cheaper buying in bulk

Sounds like a bad idea tbh. There's not the infrastructure or staff training tbh.
If my computer breaks at school it takes an age to fix as there's only one guy covering various schools and he only visits 1 day a week.

We have several iPads (ranging from iPad 2s to current models) at my infant school. We use them throughout school every week. Some are for dedicated use in the computing suite, some are for timetabled ks1 inclass sessions in each class each week and some are bookable. Each eyfs class has some full time. Every teacher and Hltahas their own and some TAs too.

Some came from school funds, some from PTA, some from ring fenced money we've received.

Ours are used all the time and with good effect. All still work though the oldest ones can't be updated any more but most apps still work. We share good practise and their banks of ideas for class use.

We've lost 2 in all the years we've had them. One - a child with SEND dropped and stamped on one.
Other - was underneath an office water pipe issue. This was replaced with the insurance claim for the office.

The teachers are less careful with theirs than the children are

iPad technology can be really effectively used in schools.

Ridiculous. Spend the money on more teachers and smaller classes.

Why not get android tablets that are way cheaper for the same specs and more open?

Having done a lot of research before investing we decided against android several years ago.
We did have a couple of Kindle tablets from the original batch, but they're long gone now yet the iPads aren't.

Simply, at least at my age range, the apps just aren't there in the same way for Android, and they just aren't anywhere near as user friendly as iPads especially for the younger children. The educational benefits of an iPad really do exist in my experience, and in most of the ICT teaching communities I'm part of.

We also don't pay full price for our iPads. No big commission for buying them either.

They are spending £300 million on giving an iPad to every child

That isn't actually true. The money is (I think) over 10 years, and is for running the entirety of City of Glasgow's IT infrastructure, of which the iPads are a small part.

aragog dds school decided agaist ipads. Said the Microsoft pro was better. I was relieved as i am not an apple fan.

Using an iPad in school doesn't make someone ready to do a tech job when they leave school. In my experience, most companies use desktops and laptops, usually running a Microsoft operating system. I'm sure there are exceptions but this is the norm.

Most people in their 20s/30s now grew up using a computer of some kind. They are confident using various Microsoft Office programs, good at typing, know how to troubleshoot basic problems etc etc. Most don't know much about programming but they had the skills to learn if they wanted/needed to.

The generation who now are in primary/Early secondary have grown up using tablets and smart phones. Anecdotally I'd say they are much less comfortable using desktop computers and windows programs than the previous generation. The skills needed to use a desktop/laptop are very different to the skills needed to use a tablet/phone.

Maybe by the time these kids are going into work, more things will be done via tablet, but certainly for the real "tech" jobs, it's a completely different skill set.

I'd also say students already struggle to write more than previous generations do. And I do think they need to practice this skill. I don't think hand written exams are going away any time soon.

This isn't a comment on the effectiveness of iPads in schools. But using iPads in school won't automatically make kids more suited to working with technology in the future - IMO if you really want to achieve that, you'd give every child a Windows laptop.

But using iPads in school won't automatically make kids more suited to working with technology in the future

Most kids will have a table or iphone at home, so it's nothing to do with learning to use an ipad.

What it should be about is opening up a new world of teaching techniques due to personalised learning and moving away from the antiquated "chalk and talk" style of teaching.

Hopefully, the more "tech" they have in schools, there'll be more pressure to provide and use modern/better teaching techniques so enable kids to learn at their own pace and free up enormous amounts of teacher time to provide more personal/tailored teaching to those who need it.

the antiquated "chalk and talk" style of teaching.

That has been successful for thousands of years. But no, sticking a kid in front of an iPad must automatically be better

I’ve seen enough ‘transformative’ edtech come and go (and the experience in LA really should give pause for thought) to want to see a bit more evidence on this before spending the money.

I read in another article that each teacher will be getting 4 hours of training on how to use the iPads with their classes. That’s less than an INSET.

How can traditional teaching methods be "successful" when less than half of 16 year olds get a "good pass" in English and Maths GCSEs and when the "good pass" mark in some GCSE exams can be as low as 30-40%?

If half of kids aren't meeting a pretty low standard at 16, how can that be called a success? We desperately need new teaching methods for all those who are disengaged with current methods.

What sort of new teaching techniques should teachers be using to get the most out of the ipads? What are we replacing ‘chalk & talk’ with?

Claiming that ‘old fashioned’ teaching methods don’t work seems to be quite vastly out of step with current thinking, kazzy.

And less than half of pupils will get a good pass. That’s the point of grade boundaries. Tech won’t change that unless you change the exam marking system.

What are we replacing ‘chalk & talk’ with?

There is a whole new generation of online learning methods. There are self-marking tests for example where you answer questions and are marked automatically, with the facility for the teacher/supervisor to see your marks/scores - surely that saves the teacher a load of time they could use better doing something more useful? Often the system will prevent the pupil moving on until they have a high enough mark in earlier chapters/sections etc. Proper "online" resources will usually have hyperlinks to definitiions/explanations etc which make it quicker and easier for kids to research any words/terms they don't know.

Open university already do fully online modules that are automatically marked/monitored.

Professional exams are now moving more and more onto online learning platforms rather than the old fashioned method of working through text books and having written exams.

The online world has moved on so much further than such basic limited resources such as BBC bitesize and just making a pdf version of a text book and claiming it's an online textbook.

The entire workplace and leisure world has moved on enormously over the past decade or so as regards tech and IT. Yet schools still seem to think making a class of 30 listen to a teacher at a black/white board and then filling in a scrappy worksheet is still the best way to learn.

And then they wonder why so many kids these days don't engage with education and are disruptive etc!

Several Edinburgh high schools have had this for years.
Started as a trial for DS2 is s2 I think and then expanded to all pupils having their own mini iPad. Ds1 had one for s5-6.

The teachers always raves about them in parents evenings and not just the it teachers: English, history etc.

Broken screens had to be paid for by parents. DS2 iPad was a bit cracked most of its life and paid about £50 for new screen when it was handed in when he left.

It would be interesting to see report of whether it's made a difference over the years.

Ligresa

As I said, after lots of research and doing to a couple of events plus some training courses before committing, iPads worked best for our needs. I am an Apple fan anyway, but felt I should look around before deciding on the investment - not my money, and needed to check I wasn't just going for Apple as I like them anyway.

We've had the first ones now for a few years and its all working well for us and what we use them for. We do have Windows based computers in the computer suite which all children use at least once a week as well. I only have one Apple Mac computer which is what I use to update, sync and maintain the iPads with.

We don't use them instead of more traditional teaching methods, but as well as. They are simply an additional tool which we have to use, to enhance our teaching and learning in different ways. Some teachers use them more effectively than others - but this is improving with lots of in-house training.

I read in another article that each teacher will be getting 4 hours of training on how to use the iPads with their classes.

I agree this is no where near enough. Hopefully it just means as a starter, to get them going. To get the most effective use out of such technology then there needs to be regularly up to date training sessions, and I often find that small group hands on works best, rather than just one big room with everyone trying to follow one trainer.

less than half of 16 year olds get a "good pass" in English and Maths GCSEs

You could give every kid in the country an ipad and this would still be the case. The grade boundaries are set that way.

There is a whole new generation of online learning methods. There are self-marking tests for example where you answer questions and are marked automatically

Tests aren’t new teaching methods, all you’re doing there is changing who marks it. In the absence of an ipad you can still have a test, one marked by a teacher, the kid sat next to you, or you can mark your own. One issue with computer-marked tests (and indeed with tests marked by the kids) is that it massively limits the type of question that can be asked -multiple choice (diagnosticquestions.com is good source of these), or simple answer (fine for maths sometimes although anyone who has wrangled with mymaths knows that it can be done badly! And it has the ‘show your working out’ issue). Machine marked essays? I don’t think we’re there yet.

Often the system will prevent the pupil moving on until they have a high enough mark in earlier chapters/sections etc.

Which means that less self-motivated learners can quickly fall behind.

Yet schools still seem to think making a class of 30 listen to a teacher at a black/white board and then filling in a scrappy worksheet is still the best way to learn

Did you see Michaela School’s results?

I’m not a Luddite, I own three iPads myself. Schools should have access to tech - my department has a class set of ipads that can be booked. But every kid having an ipad in my class every day? Yeah, it’s not going to get used that often, unless as an e-textbook.

The marks are no good if they don’t show you what went wrong. In a multiple choice question like from diagnosticquestion, knowing which answer kids picked will give you a clue. Knowing half the class got question 5 wrong is one thing, knowing why and what you need to reteach is another. It’s almost certainly quicker to do that by just looking through 30books or walking round the classroom than it is on a tablet.

60 odd comments and not one consideration of the impact this will have on education for kids with additional support needs

Ahem - I mentioned it's a godsend for my dyspraxic daughter who was getting incredibly distressed at how her writing didn't compare to the other children's - she now types anything longer which has lightened the load completely (because the pressure's off for her she will willingly handwrite letters or registers for her toys or all sorts as well which she was avoiding doing before). We are lucky though that DD2's SEN is pretty much the type that is easily supportable by just letting her type her work and reminding her occasionally that you put the pants on before the rest of your clothing (a conversation I've had numerous times these holidays)!

As for why not Android - I was in a discussion with a software developer at one point relatively recently (was one of these long delightful dialogues where I was trying to help them trouble shoot a bug) before I invested in an iPad for DD2's needs and when we were trying to make do with a cheaper Android solution - and the reason apps either don't get ported over, or get ported over very very feature-stripped is that Apple products are a relatively limited set of specifications to develop for - limited set of screen sizes really, you know the internal components and what they're going to be capable of - whereas Android being open source like it is means you're developing for a much wider range of possible options... so lots of companies don't produce for both, or strip things right back down for the Android versions. I was an Android fangirl but once I saw how much easier things were for DD2 using an iPad.

And yes you CAN write over a textbook if you have the pen mode set to on - can do it in any decent PDF reader, can do it in Apple's books app (need to turn from page turn mode to ink mode) - because I do that on a daily basis. Might not be able to do it if you're using a very old version of the operating system but you can do on any relatively up to date one. I haven't tried it on the Kindle app purely because I don't tend to use that one - but I've certainly tried it on everything else.

It’s not about writing over a textbook. In maths, we do not write over the textbook, we have the page open so we can look at the question, then a separate book in which to write our solutions. An ipad cannot be both at the same time.

In maths, we do not write over the textbook, we have the page open so we can look at the question, then a separate book in which to write our solutions. An ipad cannot be both at the same time.

My point exactly about poor online resources, i.e. the text book lazily converted to pdf and they have the nerve to call it an e-text book, but it has no "tech" functionality - just an image on the screen. What I hope to see rolled out far more is proper interactive online resources where there are hyperlinks, smart-marking, etc., where you write your answers onto the screen which are automatically marked, the results of which then determining the next stage, i.e. either moving on or repeating or giving a similar level of work in a different way to aid understanding. That's what we should be moving towards, not just substituting words on a page with words on a screen.