Teaching-not compatible with own kids?

[Ella1980]

I'm needing to get back into teaching ft from a financial pov. Problem is, don't know how I can work teaching hours e.g. realistically at least 8-5 when I have a child in primary and one in secondary. No before/after school club provision for youngest and eldest attends a school 10 miles from home with no direct bus routes. Moving them schools isn't an option.

I've been a primary teacher for 15 years now and this is why it's going to be a nightmare in terms of picking up kids and working ft. I have only ever done pt because I know primary teachers can't leave regularly before about 5 pm. And of course then there's at least a couple of hours work per evening on top of that.

My partner is getting cross at me and saying I'm putting obstacles in the way, that he believes lots of teachers must leave early to pick up their own kids. I've tried to tell him that's not true. He doesn't understand that there are expectations in teaching, and this includes working after school for unpaid hours. He just says "Well they can't MAKE you stay" etc.

I think he is going to be in for a huge shock if I do manage to get a ft teaching job.

I agree about secondary maths teachers . Ours are mostly off the carpark before 3.30!

Not sure why leaving at 5 is a problem re childcare? Most childcare provision runs til 6 as most people work til at least 5:30??

The problem is I won't be able to afford childcare provision. Money is seriously tight unfortunately.

But you CAN leave and complete work where you like. If it ain't a calendered meeting within 1265 then where and when you do your work is your own business. It may not be preferable but it sounds to me like there must be a whole load of primary school teachers martyring themselves unnecessarily. I'm not denying the workload but I still can't understand why you can't complete it on your own terms like most secondary teachers do.

OP I think you need to get your arse out your hands and stop finding barriers to every possibility.
If you go back FT surely you will be able to afford wraparound childcare? If not, where is the financial benefit in going back? We're not talking full time nursery fees after all.

Rather than 'teaching is not compatible with own kids' I think your argument is that work is not compatible because you do seem to be looking for reasons you can't work. Teachers are not required to be at school until 5pm like many other jobs (they can easily mark and plan at home in the evening if necessary), plus they have the benefits of school holidays, yes I know there's some planning, marking etc during the holidays, but that can be done around kids at home. Teaching is far more compatible with your own kids than most ft jobs.
I think you need to go and speak with a school regarding their expectations. You've asked a previous poster if it would be frowned upon to leave at 4, so you're basing your decision on what you 'think' schools expect rather than what they do expect.
I've worked in a number of schools, and it's a ghost town after 4.15 if there isn't a meeting on.

They're not unpaid hours after achool! That’s not how your contract work.

I dont understand why you wont need wrap around childcare leaving at 4, But you will at 5???

Why can your partner not share pick ups and drop offs?

I'm rarely at school after 4. I'm secondary but why would this be an issue in primary? You can do stuff at home surely?

I wouldn't work anywhere that frowned on leaving before 4.

I'm not a teacher but a school nursery nurse, working way beyond the hours of a regular school day!
It worked for me but only because I was lucky enough to work at my dcs school. So I could nip out for the odd music performance, was there by default for every school assembly performance etc and even though I do parents evening with my teacher, I obviously could access the appointment system and book my appointments as a parent in gaps in my classes schedule!
I can't imagine how I would have managed otherwise, I too had limited money (I was a lone parent when they were young) so childcare wasn't feasible and both my parents worked full time!

It does sound like you're putting obstacles in your way.

I'd you work full time you should be able to afford wrap around childcare for your younger ds. Otherwise why go back to work at all?

It would only be for two years until they start secondary, after which it will get easier financially.

I imagine that you could probably leave by 4pm on Fridays, but not every night.

The OP is right that this is just the cultural expectation in primary teaching. One night is definitely going to be a meeting/INSET. Probably every couple of weeks there will be some form of other meeting ie. meeting with a parent, team meeting or a SEN review. The other issue is that a lot of the work involves the physical environment of the classroom: finding, preparing and setting up resources. Not to mention display! All this is more time-consuming in a new school too.

But, I also don’t understand why some wrap-around childcare would be unaffordable on what is presumably M5 or M6?

It does sound like you are looking for excuses not to work OP. Unfortunately paying for childcare and not being able to go to sports days, assemblies etc is just the everyday joy of all working parents. At least you won't have to pay £80 per day for holiday childcare too.
There are logistical nightmares for childcare for every parent, I sometimes used to think that finding childcare was more painful than the labour but where there's a will, there's a way.

I’m in primary and it’s a constant struggle to leave before 5/5.30. There are mathsx30, englishx30 and one other subject x30 books (sometimes two other subjects) to mark every day so I mark these at school to avoid breaking my back lugging them home. Then there are meetings, after-school clubs, sorting resources.....
I use wrap-around childcare for my own primary age DC and it closes at 5.45. I work close to my DC’s school thankfully.

If your husband is doing 50/50 care could you stay later on the days he has them and leave earlier on the days you're responsible? I sympathise as I teach part time, have no family nearby and husband and I really struggle to cover if any of my dc are sick. I use a childminder and wraparound as my dc's breakfast club was full for 2 years. I'm usually in til 5...meetings, after school clubs etc is difficult to juggle but often leave earlier and take work home to do when dc are in bed. It's a nightmare and expensive but if you only need childcare on set days when you have dc it's more affordable. I do work near both my dc school and nursery which helps. I would say live near your older dc's school and he could travel alone then use childminder and possibly work near primary. Do you have family to help with any drop offs/pick ups? I know it's a while off but am guessing your dc2 will be expected to go to same high school?

Yes agree about the tutoring...can make good bit on the side for this. I've also marked exam papers (primary) and was hard work but good for extra cash.

Take books home (yes heavy but if childcare is an issue heavy books are worth the bother). Although if you're in a school where your marking policy is teacher assessed work in core subjects every single day good luck to them when Ofsted inspection under the new framework and ask the workload question!

Resources- if you're not a newish teacher do you really have to fanny about every day to that extent physically sorting resources (not making shiny new ones- do that at home)? Make use of lunch break if so.

You don't have to run an after school club. Nobody can make you. You can always pick one up when DC are older.

You shouldn't be doing displays, that's been a 'thing' since about 15 years ago. However if you want to do them yourself again surely that's a lunchtime thing, if you need to get off at the end of the day.

Meeting realistically might be 2x 1 hours a week tops otherwise 1265 won't work out. Do all you primary teachers get given a copy of your directed time budget and actually check it?

As I say I'm not doubting the workload of primary one bit but if childcare is that much of an issue all these things are fixable, unless you're reliant on public transport in which case yes taking more than one set of books home a night wouldn't be possible.

I thought you meant four buses each way so eight buses but a secondary school journey of two buses is not out of the ordinary.

What is the availability of suppy teaching in your area?

As a parent I've taught full time, part time and now supply (full time). Supply suits me perfectly at this stage in my family and professional life.

Supply (as long as you can get it year round) is much better pay than part time and much less work when you consider the lack of planning and meetings etc. And I think that the benefits more than make up for the financial shortfall compared with a full time teaching load.

Obviously I need to pay for childcare before and after school but I usually collect my dc by 4pm and therefore have time for after school activities.

And you still get the benefits of school holidays

Same as any other job, except you have less trouble with holiday childcare. It's not perfect, but it's more compatible with having your own kids than most other jobs.

Thanks all. I guess a part of my fears stem from past experiences. These include being told I was not "doing myself any favours" for not running an after-school club, that I had a "duty of care" to supervise children whose parents regularly did not collect them until 4pm, to come in on my day off to attend a lunchtime staff meeting and to host two parents' evenings in the same week 5-8pm on a 16 hour contract, to be left on-site at times after school entirely on my own and with kids plus a locked office door in which meds and emergency contact details were kept.

Did I get the unions involved? Yes. Did that cause more problems? Definitely.

YY to marking all that every day being a waste of time and ofsted should look negatively on it.

*Just checked my old diary-they were both actually 4pm-8pm.

You've had one bad experience. Not all schools are like that

It all sounds so draconian. It’s not teaching per se but the way schools are managed by the sounds of it

I am a teacher and have never had an issue taking time off for my children being sick, for sports days or nativities. I am in Scotland though and I wonder if, culturally, we have moved away from presenteeism. Obviously I know that children need their teacher in the room but I know from my dd who is in Prinary 2 that her teacher has marking and prep time during the pupil day. The funding is built in to school funding

Sorry - I know that is not helpful but I suppose I want to sympathise with OP that I can see why your particular school experience makes it feel impossible to be a parent