Rejected for PGCE

[Needadoughnut]

I just got rejected. It didn't even take them 20mins to say no. The feedback implies that I'm almost need to be a "semi" teacher to be successful next time. I'm sure it was a misunderstanding on my part as I would have thought that was the point of the degree.

That's great that you have another application in the pipeline.
I'd suggest you learn a bit more about the actual content you'll be teaching. Get a Spanish GCSE revision guide. I know you speak Spanish so you'll easily be able to pick up a few facts about Spain that'll shown you've made an effort to fill gaps in your subject knowledge.
Good luck.

Just happy to know late thirties is not middle-aged!!(misses point)

I'm mid thirties and there's no way I'd consider myself middle-aged! That's more like 40 somethings and upwards!!

Teaching in the uk state system is about far more than knowing your subject. No experience of the uk education system is off putting to recruiters, especially when coupled with an apparent arrogance about what and how your subject is taught within that system.

Up to some years ago (as far as I remember), teaching training was only available on your degree subject. Apart from funding that was one of the reasons why I didn't take the PGCE route a few months moons ago. I wanted to teach languages not sociology. Rules have changed it must be for a reason. I fully take the arrogance feedback, I know I sound that way. It has helped me in my corporate career but I know this is a completely different sphere. I know someone who graduated from Oxford with an English degree and has not idea what a "direct object" is. Just to point out that languages and grammar are more than a degree.

CarrieBlue I'd never been to a state school when I started my school based teacher training in an inner London school. I went to an English private school but had 2 years of experience of teaching secondary school classes, though all oversees EFL teaching.

I think tbh it will have been the arrogance and lack of experience teaching and with children/ teens generally.

Being fluent in a language (or having a PhD in pure mathematics, or being a sought after software engineer) does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that you'll be good at teaching MFL/ maths/ IT at GCSE level.

Obviously they can't expect an experienced teacher, but 3 days experience is nothing - my DD did longer on her year 8 work experience placement! You can't know you want to teach after 3 days.

I'd say substantial experience with the age group would be a reasonable expectation, even in a non school volunteer context. That's for the applicant's sake too - how do you know that you want to work with teens Needadoughnut ?

It also doesn't sound as though Needadoughnut sold herself well - you have to be ready to say why everything you've done has led you to where you are today, on the verge of what you've come to realise is your vocation as a GCSE MFL teacher! It'll be BS to a degree, but interviews are a game...

The thing is, though, Needadoughnut teaching isn't about knowing your subject really well. It's about being able to communicate the subject you have advanced knowledge of, at a basic level, to people who don't know it, in a way that inspires them and encourages them to want to learn it and stick with it's hard.

So no, being fluent or having a 1st class honours degree in maths, or science is not a sign that someone will be a good teacher. It's just a sign that they know their subject at degree level.

Lougle absolutely! I don't think 5 mins where enough to show that off. Of what I've read most "samples" are at least 20mins long. I have lectured at university level (when I was a lecturing assistant) not the same but it did give me a good idea of how to pass the knowledge across. They were first years so not too different from 6th form leavers. In the feedback it was implied that due to my academic background I was possibly more suited for academia. I think that's a fair point. I didn't have a choice to study languages I know, they were taught to me for years, very different to what the average secondary student faces. The only one I studied out of choice was Japanese, I wish back then I've had more time for it. It was a very hard language and even with 4 weekly hours for 2 years I only reached an intermediate level.

I'm glad you are giving the university based route ago. I think you should take on board all the comments and prepare yourself better next time. You don't want to give them any reason to reject you.

You mentioned your non standard qualifications being a possible stumbling block. DSs experience wouldn't support that. He undertook all of his secondary education in Spain so has an ESO and a Bachillerato rather than GCSEs and A levels. He went to university in the UK, taking a degree in European languages (he now speaks 2 other languages) and did his PGCE at Oxford. He was also accepted at his other two choices. This was in 2015 when a 2:1 and several weeks school experience was a requirement of most programmes. He had to teach a lesson and at each university the selection process took pretty much a whole day. In fact, the Oxford day didn't end until about 7pm! He did lots of preparation and managed to secure a number of weeks in several different schools to get some experience of the UK system as, like you, he had no direct understanding of the curriculum and exam process, having not been through it himself. He has been teaching languages at an outstanding school since he finished the PGCE.

If you really want this I'm sure you can do it as it sounds like you have the ability, you just need to show them it's something you really want. Your passion for languages shows in your posts but your passion for teaching them doesn't. I think you know that.

Fingers crossed for a better outcome next time. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks fussy that's very encouraging. I'll write a longer reply but I'm with the DC.

This isn’t to do with your application or anything but I notice you mention first year students being not that different to sixth formers. Which is of course true. But bear in mind you will be teaching lots of children who have zero interest in learning a language. You’ll teach Spanish to GCSE to students who will get a grade 2 at the end of it. I’m sure you’ve already considered this but please be aware of what you’re letting yourself in for. I love being an MFL teacher but before I trained I thought it was because I loved my subject. Through teaching I realise it’s because I love the students and helping them to learn, even if it’s not a language that they’re becoming proficient in because ‘they’ll never go to France anyway’

University students have paid a lot of money to be there and have already demonstrated considerable aptitude in their subject. It really isn't comparable to teaching a mixed ability Year 7 class.

Admittedly this was a few years ago, and PGCE rather than SCITT, but every single student in my cohort had worked in a school full-time for at least a year.

I think I only had 2 days experience.

I had a micro teach in my Interview I'm sure it was terrible. But still got a place.

Almost all my training involves planning on my own and being told where I'm going wrong.

Try another provider op

We are always looking for MFL staff. And the field is small and/or dire when we advertise. I'm amazed they're turning intelligent, keen trainees away so swiftly.

I'd say try again next year for the PGCE rather than the SCITT. I have colleagues who did the SCITT and they wish they had done the PGCE.

Thank you for the compliments Rath I have tried a university based PGCE. Hopefully they'll at least give me an interview.

I hope it goes well Doughnut

When I started my PGCE in 1997 I had absolutely no school experience. There seem to be so many hoops to jump through these days. I’m still teaching, 21 years later, though admittedly not in an actual school any more. I did stick with state schools for 19 of those 21 years though so lack of experience before I started obviously wasn’t an issue, and I’m still in the state system.

I'm sorry you were unsuccessful and I do hope the university PGCE application is successful.

I think the main issues are a lack of experience in state schools - looking for instance at how teachers engage pupils who don't want to learn languages, classroom management, the GCSE curriculum etc.

The other thing, unfortunately, is the way you came across (although you do acknowledge that) can you get someone who isn't in the corporate world to do a mock.interview and give you some feedback?