Rejected for PGCE

[Needadoughnut]

I just got rejected. It didn't even take them 20mins to say no. The feedback implies that I'm almost need to be a "semi" teacher to be successful next time. I'm sure it was a misunderstanding on my part as I would have thought that was the point of the degree.

Of my three days' experience (I'm sure now I should have done more) they included ONE festival. No mention at all within the lessons about any of Latin America and the grammar was Castillian (which does differ from Latin American Spanish). So I didn't know if it was out of not having the freedom, laziness, or ignorance from the teacher I shadowed. I would also feel like an absolute moron trying to pronounce things like a Spaniard would (because that's not my natural accent) but I definitely left that outside the interview.

I think you're right Bob . All very good points. I do think I came across the wrong way more than once. To me languages open the door to other worlds, way beyond passing a test, ordering a beer or not getting lost. They do change the mind process and give you a broader understanding of the world.

I was given the advice long ago that when you ask a question in an interview, as an interviewee, you should only ask it if the answer will affect whether or not you would accept the position. In a standard teaching interview it's perfectly acceptable to have no questions at the end. Not like some industries when you need an impressive question at the end to show how fabulous you are.
The interview is not the place to debate the narrowness of the national curriculum. If their response had been 'no. We only teach castillian. There's no scope for teaching about Latin America' would you have turned down an offer?
They're after someone who will do as they're told, turn up and teach lessons reliably and will be committed enough to push through the tough bits.
What geography did you correct? Just being nosey.

To be fair, Spain is our local Spanish speaking country. The French GCSE doesn’t include French Canadian. GCSE is a pretty basic level qualification and I’m not sure it’s wrong to teach them to speak in the main way that’s going to be useful to them, with differences explored at higher levels.

Cuckoo exactly I felt like it was a corporate interview and I had to ask something otherwise I would end up looking like a fool.

I also understand the lack of Canadian, Swiss or Belgian French. I was taught the logic behind all three (Canadian is the most different, the other two is mostly about numbers and vocabulary). However, I still think it's fairly limited to teach Castillian when you do it by numbers. They might never go there but through media they'll always be exposed to Latin American vs Castillian - mainly because of the US- . Then again I know I'm biased and passionate about that subject in particular so it was a terrible mistake of me to even mention it.

Oh dear. What people from the outside think is that teachers like debate, are quite maverick or independent and vocal. In reality, teaching has cheged to a 'yes, boss' culture and they probably thought you were 'too clever by half ' (I have honestly had this said about me!). Sadly, your intellect may have been viewed as threatening. An independent school might take you on as trainee? Many of them are stil more 'old school'.

As for having experience before traning, I tend to agree that should be what the training is for (it's the same when you apply for SLT posts , believe me!). I had barely set foot inside a classroom before my PGCE (otehr thna at school). A lot of barriers are imposed these days, despite recruitment crises!

However, reaing between the lines, I don't infer a huge amount of desire to teach from your posts, so maybe that doesn't come across well?

You do, however, come across as passionate about languages and it seems a shame the teaching profession don't want to harness and mould this.

As an MFL teacher who failed (twice) to get on the GTP but did manage to get on a PGCE eventually, it sounds like you just rubbed them up the wrong way. If you want it, apply again, taking all comments on board.

They queried your pedagogical knowledge and/or questioned you about your language learning because it sounds like (might have it wrong) that you learned your languages at home in 'near native' surroundings rather than in school, then university etc.? They would be looking at whether or not you understood that the learning environment would be very different to your experience and whether or not you understood what/how you were going to have to adapt.

Also biased when it comes to Spanish as I learnt in Latin America but unfortunately, by asking you've shown them you're 'way up there' when you need to be 'oh so way down here'! it's a non-starter. The language you will be teaching is desperately basic. The grammar rules at GCSE level are the same whether you're Spanish or LatAm. It's like asking in a Spanish school why they don't teach English with a Scottish bias or a Liverpudlian accent. If you work in a school with 'A' Level you can begin to introduce the differences but ultimately, the exams are very 'controlled' and teaching 'voseo', for example, will not be heard or written in an exam. That said, on the AQA spec, Marquez features which in the literature section so it's not all bad! secretly longs for the days when I was able to teach a book by an Argentine author and throw in some voseo

Lost at a Spanish school I would question teaching American vs British but possibly out of curiosity more than anything else. I did acquire Spanish in a home/family setting, but I didn't with French. The method is quite different though, half the classes were in French from pre-school to secondary school.

I agree Piggy I don't think I managed to convince them I had a passion for teaching. I do have (like you point out) a passion for languages and I love to pass on to students.

I'm not a teacher, for transparency, but I have been involved in education as a governor for many years until recently, so used to regularly interview for staff, and I work in the public sector. I think you have had an unfortunate culture clash between sectors, in part, as well as a lack of research.

'How to you respond to feedback' was an open ended question, designed to allow you to show your reflective ability to accept constructive criticism and build on it for future work. To show that you can develop as a teacher, work in a team, and that you'll cooperate with your assigned mentor. That you don't think you're a done deal. You tried to assure your interviewers that you are fully used to feedback from all directions, but your answer implies a 'been there, done that, move on' attitude, which shuts down further discussion.

Saying you need the bursary, as a reason for why now, is a bit daft. The bursaries aren't going anywhere, really, and you make yourself sound like you're just looking for a stepping stone. You must have other reasons why you want to teach? You must have other reasons why now is a good time? Even if it was as simple as "I've enjoyed a career in X, but when I was at LSE, I enjoyed learning languages so much that I want to pass on that love of languages to other young people. I feel that I am at a stage in my life where I have the maturity and motivation to dedicate my time and energy to teaching, and my experience in X field will help me because ....."

I don't think the questions you were asked were common sense or straightforward, either, btw. They were all asked to elicit your soft skills. So yes, you have 3 languages, you will probably be able to deliver the curriculum, but will you be able to come alongside children and open up their world? Will you be able to talk to them? Reach them? Make them passionate about languages? See when they are at risk or in trouble? Safeguarding is a role for every teacher - would you notice, would you care? Those sorts of questions are trying to pick that information out, so they aren't common sense, at all, and there are wrong answers. There are lots and lots of right answers, and people answer them in very different ways. But there definitely are wrong answers, and they are noted, and they will fail an interview.

Lougle very good points. I also think they didn't really like that even though I've had thought of being a teacher for a while (almost a decade) I instead went for a Sociology MA at LSE. Again, I was honest my first career choice was academia but the corporate world got me first and now I'm gearing towards teaching. I think in their eyes, if I was able to afford an MA I should have gone the teaching path back then .

Ah yes you must always bow down to the superiors! Schools, ime, are obsessed with hierarchy. Teachers are the minions and mustn't question the great leaders. I've learnt the hard way to hide most of what I really think. The best thing about teaching is that once you're in you can spread your radical ideas amongst the kids so you do get a chance to expand the minds of the future. You just have to keep it secret from management!

One thought: ut sounds as if you don't have formal qualifications in French and/or Spanish and if they weren't subject specialist they weren't necessarily able to assess your level.

Don't talk about money in school interviews! Ever! Of course we all care about money but it's all supposed to be about the kids and the profession and the wonderful opportunities, and it rubs SLT up the wrong way.

Also, going in for three days and starting to criticise what you've seen is off-putting to a training provider, because these are the same people who will be training you. If you give off the impression that you're going to sit at the back of lessons judging away and thinking you could do it so much better, you're going to come across as a nightmare to train. You will have great ideas as a trainee and you might decide you don't necessarily like your department's way of doing it, but you have to accept that they are doing what works in their context and they are more experienced than you. Some trainees on my course have got all uppity about things in their placement departments that they don't like/think is utter rubbish, and it has not gone down well with their mentors or uni tutors.

If that’s how you put it, no wonder they rejected you! I left my first career because I hated it but went into teaching positively because I was passionate about working with children. That really isn’t coming across for you, especially if you talked about the bursary. Not choosing to teach when you did your MA really won’t have counted against you. Loads of people come in later.

They did ask twice why didn't I choose a PGCE back then. I have a French lycée qualification, but no GCSEs / A levels as I went on to do an IB. I don't have a degree in languages but my education was at least half taught in French. I do have to take a Spanish test when I was exploring where to go to Uni, I passed it in the top tier which puts me on the same level as any Spanish speaker. My education is not very "standard" and I did mention that the way I was taught languages differs from the way it is taught, but that I'm sure that just a re-adjustment. There was also this "self-assessment" language piece of paper. It mentioned current affairs/history. I was honest and said that I had no clue about Spain, but I would be ok. I had no issues with France/French. I thought someone would "test" my languages but nobody did that either.

I get this sometimes as I have Scottish qualifications and my grades are in numbers (the other bloody way round from the new ones!!!). I reckon they were frightened of you. There may be someone within their existing dept structure (possibly the planned mentor) who they think you will overwhelm, intimidate or rub up the wrong way. You might actually have had a lucky escape.

I agree "Piggy". I think I would have clashed with them at some point. Better find somewhere else that will be able to mould me. I am aware there's a lot I could have done to prepare better, but I have a hunch my inquisitive nature wouldn't have fit with their way of thinking/doing things. I do take the feedback on board and will try to get some more experience.

I'm not a blind advocate of private schools but they do take on impressive people with non standard qualifications : it might be worth having a dig around.

Thanks Piggy that seems like a good idea. I'm trying not to feel disheartened. My top priority is to get more experience and then take it from there.

I got the first and only school based teacher training (GTP - a salaried scheme which I don't think exists any more) place I applied for, straight out of an MSc. in a totally unrelated subject (done in the evening at Birkbeck whilst working in a bank) it didn't put them off at all and instead I used it to negotiate starting higher up the unqualified pay scale. The MA won't have put them off and you missed a trick if you didn't persuade them that sociology is massively relevant to teaching and perhaps even what inspired you to switch direction...

Blueskies I think there are currently a few similar programmes but not exactly that one. I think it was most definitely a mix of things

Update! I was able to apply for a university based one. Let's see how that one goes. Hopefully I can fit in some more experience days if I get an interview.

Good luck. I hope this thread has helped you to see where you might be able to soften your approach and give more rounded and thorough answers to questions that you are asked.

I think your lack of experience in standard state schools, either as a pupil or subsequently would have been very off putting to any training provider. You haven’t mentioned any experience with young people, you don’t have any formal language qualifications, you were arrogant and ill prepared in interview. There may be a teacher shortage but the profession shouldn’t be taking on people who fancy a go at it because there’s a bursary. Get some proper experience of young people and start having some respect for those who are teaching languages, even if it’s not taught precisely how you reckon it should be. Many kids seem to have little interest in language lessons and your concern with which dialect they are taught is way down the list of issues most teachers would be worried about.

Carrie not having experience in a standard secondary school setting or language qualifications shouldn't be off putting. I thought that my interview was if me to convoy them that even though I don't have them I can properly teach them. That logic would mean that all international students with degrees in their native languages should not apply. I'm sure they can teach them properly as long as they know their grammar.